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Met police to hand in weapons and stop killing black Britons


Current firearms tactics… gives some perspective. This was the type of incident I got frequently dispatched, often with no idea if the firearm was real or not.
 
Andrew C! said:
Blimey - I lasted well - being from a swathe of people being totally unsuited to the job. I also managed to go a whole 10 years without shooting anybody with a real bullet.

I do not think for one minute the handling of the shooting incident subject of this thread has been handled empathetically and smoothly from the start. I also fully acknowledge there have been cases where PIMS and subsequent 'evidence' seems to have been very interestingly gathered in some other cases. I refer to my 1st post on this thread for my view on this.

Some reading: https://news.met.police.uk/news/update-following-police-shooting-in-lambeth-453722 - no mention on here yet of the original reason for the vehicle stop?

"The watchdog said he was driving a vehicle not registered to him that had been flagged up by an automatic number plate recognition camera as having been linked to a firearms incident in previous days." source - ITV news: https://www.itv.com/news/2022-09-12...o-fatally-shot-chris-kaba-suspended-from-duty

The IOPC enquiry will look at all of the angles from this, including the info marker on PNC, the command and control leading to the stop - which will have been recorded etc etc.

The IOPC are treating it as a homicide inquiry. That leaves all angles and options open to follow. They do not have the luxury that some posters on here have in coming to a conclusion before examining all available evidence - factual or otherwise.

Finally, I always thought that if I'd had to my job in this regard it would have changed my life forever. I was always briefed that it would be fully and impartially investigated, and the final decision to discharge my f/arm was mine and mine alone. That caveat was in the tactical F/Arms manual right up until I left in 2015. This information has been a matter of public knowledge for many years. https://www.college.police.uk/app/armed-policing/use-force-firearms-and-less-lethal-weapons
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Don't get me wrong, it's not everyone, but they are there and they taint the force and it's level of professionalism - for both those on the receiving end of their services and for colleagues that are tarred by association.

The police have to recruit to maintain target staffing levels and if they set entry criteria any lower they couldn't. A significant number will be precisely the kind of inadequates that are attracted by the authority the role imparts and will brandish this to compensate for their lack of agency. It is an almost inevitable part of policing and I suspect there there is almost nothing that can be done to reduce it's incidence other than reducing the size of the force or increasing salaries and the entry criteria threshold.

Of course, an implicit recognition of this by police forces would completely undermine their authority, so that isn't going to happen.

Until this is resolved, incidents involving deaths in custody, rapey officers and shooting unarmed people will continue to happen.

I wonder how many serving officers would fail the NCA vetting process?
 
Seanm said:
Well, it’s an irrelevant question isn’t it? Feel free to explain why it occurred to you to ask it.
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It was a very simple request for an opinion on a closely related matter. If you feel that it is irrelevant, that's fine. I may or may not make assumptions.

Me? I respect the police and, a few years ago, got to know a few of the Met's close protection officers very well. I doubt very much if any of them, or any other armed police for that matter, want to end anyone's life unless there is a good reason. But of course, I will be wrong.
 
canonman said:
It was a very simple request for an opinion on a closely related matter. If you feel that it is irrelevant, that's fine. I may or may not make assumptions.

Me? I respect the police and, a few years ago, got to know a few of the Met's close protection officers very well. I doubt very much if any of them, or any other armed police for that matter, want to end anyone's life unless there is a good reason. But of course, I will be wrong.
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Unfortunately, Wayne Couzens says you're wrong.
 
Andrew C! said:

Current firearms tactics… gives some perspective. This was the type of incident I got frequently dispatched, often with no idea if the firearm was real or not.
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For a bit more perspective:

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Source: https://www.inquest.org.uk/fatal-police-shootings
 
canonman said:
It was a very simple request for an opinion on a closely related matter. If you feel that it is irrelevant, that's fine. I may or may not make assumptions.

Me? I respect the police and, a few years ago, got to know a few of the Met's close protection officers very well. I doubt very much if any of them, or any other armed police for that matter, want to end anyone's life unless there is a good reason. But of course, I will be wrong.
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I don’t think it is closely related. Again, feel free to explain the relation. Or just leave it hanging as a whiffy innuendo like Ponty’s.
 
Seanm said:
That he deserved to be shot and killed by the police, or that the police deliberately executed him.
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That’s most certainly not what I’m saying, you are making things up. I’m saying that I find it an extraordinary coincidence that he happened to have form. I don’t believe in coincidences.
 
Seanm said:
Barely worth talking about really.
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I would say it's a small (*) part of a bigger issue around how the police deals with parts of the population with certain protected characteristics, which it seems this thread is migrating to anyway.

(*) clearly not for those who have lost a loved one from such an incident.
 
Ponty said:
That’s most certainly not what I’m saying, you are making things up. I’m saying that I find it an extraordinary coincidence that he happened to have form. I don’t believe in coincidences.
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Summary execution without trial OK by you then?
 
Ponty said:
That’s most certainly not what I’m saying, you are making things up. I’m saying that I find it an extraordinary coincidence that he happened to have form. I don’t believe in coincidences.
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So what do you think the significance is? If you don’t spell it out I have to make assumptions. Reminder: the police said they had no knowledge of his record when they killed him, so either it has no bearing on their actions or they’re lying.
 
Seanm said:
So what do you think the significance is? If you don’t spell it out I have to make assumptions. Reminder: the police said they had no knowledge of his record when they killed him, so either it has no bearing on their actions or they’re lying.
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We don’t know. It was a long time ago and we are looking at a wiki entry for heavens sake. There could be all sorts of additional factors and circumstances that we are not aware of. As I said, there’s generally no smoke without fire.
 
Ponty said:
We don’t know. It was a long time ago and we are looking at a wiki entry for heavens sake. There could be all sorts of additional factors and circumstances that we are not aware of. As I said, there’s generally no smoke without fire.
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FFS. What does that *mean* if it doesn’t mean either he had it coming, or the police are lying, or both? It’s just nasty innuendo.
 
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