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Brexit: give me a positive effect... X

Discussion in 'off topic' started by kabayiri, Jan 13, 2021.

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  1. tonerei

    tonerei pfm Member

    The UK is flummoxed by a Labour party that appears with the exception of Blairs time to lack coherence and ability to create an alternative that enough people will vote for. Why the hell did Blair not introduce PR during his long tenure? It is the only way you will get a parliament that more closely reflects the voting patterns.
  2. tonerei

    tonerei pfm Member

    Everyone gets how gullible voters are not only in Grimsby and Barnsley but all over the world. That doesn't justify blaming the EU rather than their elected government. These people were voting for narrow reasons that have been well played out and are hiding in plain view for all to see. The few Brexiteers who posted on this thread were made well aware of all the problems that would occur. But they were not and still are not interested. Like Trump pulling out of the WHO and Paris accord these folk imho are just selfish and narrow minded. I could understand if they could produce a list of positives and the UK government were moving swiftly to put in place the wonderful policies that would demonstrate why Brexit was a good idea. Nada from BJ and his band. Biden is barely in a day and he has done more in that time then BJ has or will do in his full term.
    Nick_G and glenda like this.
  3. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    Do you think so?, what makes you think corporate UK is going to invest in high tech manufacturing, it hasn’t bothered since the steam engine was invented.
  4. kabayiri

    kabayiri pfm Member

    Yes, I think you pin your aspirations on the right big business, and you will still have opportunity. I've lost faith in the nation state. I have more in common with work colleagues based half way around the world than I do with some people in this country.
  5. kendo

    kendo Prussian bot

  6. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    Nick_G likes this.
  7. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    Well, we’re all different, but culturally I feel European. I love the fact that all European countries are different but share the a common heritage - and I’m not claiming any kind of cultural superiority regarding Europe versus ‘the rest’. The idea that the EU has led to some kind of inter-national homogeny is nonsense. I’ve worked with many people in the States but feel no affinity to the country.
  8. kabayiri

    kabayiri pfm Member

    Do you think that some USA companies don't really get Europe?

    One of my old American bosses used to think that the different countries in Europe were just like states, and that VAT was like a state sales tax. He was wrong of course.

    The UK has sat in this quasi position between Europe and USA for a long time. It's like having a foot in both camps.
  9. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    Not really. We hear a lot about the ‘special relationship’ with the States, but I feel a million times closer to Europe than the US.
    Covkxw and kendo like this.
  10. martin clark

    martin clark pinko bodger

    SitRep for clarity:


    Summary: utterly shite situation.

    (NB: I just stole this as a scrape from a re-tweet by an old friend, and would rather credit the originator if anyone recognises the image)
  11. kendo

    kendo Prussian bot

    russel likes this.
  12. eternumviti

    eternumviti Bloviating Brexiter

    Oh, God, haven't we just, it is wearily familiar. The so patronising 'we've been through this several times before, EV', the not too long to retirement schoolteacher dealing patiently with just another tiresome, annoyingly awkward, know-it-all but ever-so-slighly dim teenager, pfm's own sensible uncle, all the facts to hand but entirely innocent of the the underlying truths. Yes, we've been here before, uncle PsB.

    Oh, I think that we can all agree that the vastly overbloated HoL is overdue for abolition or fundamental reform, but to compare the HoL with the European Commission is both absurd and disingenuous. The HoL doesn't propose legislation, it merely debates legislation that has been proposed by the government and debated in the Commons. It can't reject that draft legislation, but can propose amendments for further consideration by the HoC. In that respect it is more like the ridiculous EP, that over-lunched, over-remunerated and over-expended body of nobodies trekking forever between Brussels and Strasbourg, but with the advantage of some seriously knowledgeable and experienced public and not-so-public figures amongst the ever-increasing sea of drab politically-ermined appointees.

    Beyond the member states, effective only in theory. You've been swallowing too much of that soothing EC press office ointment. The European Council, so oddly similarly nomenclatured to the Council of the EU and the unrelated (but with a curiously common HQ city, flag and anthem) Council of Europe, conducts only EU27 business when the doors close behind it. The European Parliament is a strange and remote institution, with an electoral structure and geographical constituency completely unfamiliar to those on these shores, if sometimes less so on the continent, the Parliament itself comprising dominant so-called 'grand coalitions' which represent a predominantly mid-European, pro-EU, social-democratic political hegenomy and provide the (predominantly white, male) man-power to the horse-traded into place members of the European Commission, itself the effective executive of the EU, framing and proposing legislation before posting it to the EP to be agonisingly debated, committeed and sub-committeed before being dutifully rubber stamped and sent back to the Commission to frame, shovel through the national legislations without further troubling their Parliaments, neatly press officed, and sent on to the CJEU to be enforced by the politically highly activist ECJ. And we wonder why the bewildered, befuddled, bebugger'd and totally disenfranchised EU electorates can't be bothered to turn up the EP elections!

    It sounds to me as if you need to make your mind, not me, I'm pretty clear on it.

    The EU might be defined as all of those things, except the nation state, to which it entirey antipathetic. An empire in the making, sans democracy etc, certainly. A fledgling federal state, even more so, but one with, lets see, imperial pretensions? Yes. A technocracy indeed, with an irrelevant democracy, and inclinations towards a standing army, indeed. If it isn't also a free trade zone, it is entirely irrelevant, the single market (and elements of the CU) being the only aspect of it which has any real merit.

    What do you want it to be. If we can move beyond an alternative to the tories?
  13. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    No you didn't.You said "the changes on the high street are plain to see". That's not EU policy.
    kendo likes this.
  14. eternumviti

    eternumviti Bloviating Brexiter

    The tories are in power thanks to an utterly useless opposition. I repeat, it isn't the job of the EU to provide parliamentary opposition, unless it wishes to stand candidates in the UK Parliamentary elections. Which, of course, it can't.
  15. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    You repeat, and not for the first time. It was a poor argument to make on the first occasion, and time hasn't been kind to it.
  16. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Come off it. Who *ever* told them that, compared to the decades of lies in the popular press about straight bananas and all the rest?

    This much is obvious. Barnsley and Grimsby are tired of being f*d for decades so they want change. Who wouldn't? They just believed the lies about who was responsible and they are now in for some proper shagging. Levelling up? Yeah, right.
    Covkxw, PsB, SteveS1 and 12 others like this.
  17. notaclue

    notaclue pfm Member

    Who would have ever thought that the rabid Brexiteers would resort to this when it became clear that their dumb plan to make Britain great again was even dumber in reality (cos there was no plan) ?

    Who could have believed that this would happen? And that they would do that?


    Startling. Absolutely startling.
  18. eternumviti

    eternumviti Bloviating Brexiter

    Wake up. It isn't an argument, it's a fact.
  19. NeilR

    NeilR pfm Member

  20. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    An advantage we just threw away for nothing.

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