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Brexit: give me a positive effect... X

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Do you not think our political posturing since the vote has been driven by that trait known as 'pride' ?

I do. I can't really explain Theresa May's early posturing in her short(ish) tenure.

They would have to swallow a lot of pride to do what you suggest. Not just Tories. The majority signed off on A50.
Rejoining is tacit acceptance that they didn't understand what they were initiating.
They didn't have a clue at the time? How come? I did.
 
They didn't have a clue at the time? How come? I did.
Don't you think that they have learnt more in the last few weeks, than in the whole year prior to triggering A50, when Theresa May said the delay was to get all their "ducks in a row".

Even Cameron is on record as saying that they could make a Leave vote work. I don't remember what Corbyn said, nobody can.
 
And your sneering contempt for the EU colours virtually your every utterance on the brexit threads.

I can't stand the EU, so barely surprising.

My contempt for it has only grown during the course of the last 4 and a half years.

It doesn't, however, extend to those who support membership, though I teeter a bit at the kind of blind pro-EU fundamentalism often on display here, particularly when it expresses as contempt for people who believe in self-determination - the ability to vote for, and sanction, the people who make our laws and spend our taxes.
 
I can't stand the EU, so barely surprising.

My contempt for it has only grown during the course of the last 4 and a half years.

It doesn't, however, extend to those who support membership, though I teeter a bit at the kind of blind pro-EU fundamentalism often on display here, particularly when it expresses as contempt for people who believe in self-determination - the abilitity to vote for, and sanction, the people who make our laws and spend our taxes.
It comes down to those having bypassed our ability to sanction them, and the EU being on a different level of honest and competent.
So what do I choose? Illusory electoral accountability or someone competent to govern with my interests at heart? No contest.
 
It comes down to those having bypassed our ability to sanction them, and the EU being on a different level of honest and competent.
So what do I choose? Illusory electoral accountability or someone competent to govern with my interests at heart? No contest.
Isn't the key component in your sentence "my interests" ?

Nobody can really dispute them. They relate to your circumstances.

It's beyond question that the EU has changed significantly in the last 2 decades. Is it possible that it no longer matches the interests of other UK voters?
 
It comes down to those having bypassed our ability to sanction them, and the EU being on a different level of honest and competent.
So what do I choose? Illusory electoral accountability or someone competent to govern with my interests at heart? No contest.

That's what I mean by blind fundamentalism.
 
Oh, there's plenty of criticism from all corners, but yours is unique in its seething hatred. You desperately want it to fail, directly in the face of the majorities in England and Wales, and the not insignificant minorities in NI & Scotland. And your sneering contempt for those who voted to leave colours virtually your every utterance on the brexit threads.
I think you’ll find the Brexit experiment will sink or swim for factors beyond the impact of individual opinion. I actually find it difficult to articulate the degree of contempt I hold the Tory Party, UKIP and the rest of the Brexit movement in, so I appreciate your feedback. The ridicule they attract is incredibly widespread- you should look more widely at social media.
 
I bet less than 1% of the electorate had any idea how the EU affected their lives.
I'd have said that was true certainly in the 80s, and probably in the 90s.

But, I disagree with regards to the modern EU, post 2003.

Walk down pretty much any high street. The changes of mass migration are clear to see. Whether you agree with the changes or not, they do impact our lives.
 
I'd have said that was true certainly in the 80s, and probably in the 90s.

But, I disagree with regards to the modern EU, post 2003.

Walk down pretty much any high street. The changes of mass migration are clear to see. Whether you agree with the changes or not, they do impact our lives.
So other than the opening of a Polski Sklep in most towns, and factories getting a raft of Poles then Lithuanians and Romanians, what has been the understanding of the man in the street of the EU?
 
Don't you think that they have learnt more in the last few weeks, than in the whole year prior to triggering A50, when Theresa May said the delay was to get all their "ducks in a row".
No. I think they just ploughed on regardless, knowing that it was likely to end in tears but hoping for the best. This was their ONE JOB and they have screwed it up, royally.

Even Cameron is on record as saying that they could make a Leave vote work.
He may have done and a competent government would have done so, following a protracted period of negotiation. It might have been a bit worse than what we had, but not a car crash.

I don't remember what Corbyn said, nobody can.
I can. "Trigger A50 immediately". Idiot.
 
So other than the opening of a Polski Sklep in most towns, and factories getting a raft of Poles then Lithuanians and Romanians, what has been the understanding of the man in the street of the EU?
I simply stated that the result of EU policy has changed the UK in recent times.
 
Isn't the key component in your sentence "my interests" ?

Nobody can really dispute them. They relate to your circumstances.

It's beyond question that the EU has changed significantly in the last 2 decades. Is it possible that it no longer matches the interests of other UK voters?
Nope. The tories are screwing us all, apart from MPs, their families and their doners.
 
I think you’ll find the Brexit experiment will sink or swim for factors beyond the impact of individual opinion. I actually find it difficult to articulate the degree of contempt I hold the Tory Party, UKIP and the rest of the Brexit movement in, so I appreciate your feedback.

You're welcome.

..you should look more widely at social media.

Ah, that swamp. I'd suggest you should probably look less widely at it.
 
No, I really know what I mean.

'Pragmatism' though does tap the self-interest theme. We could call it blind fundamentalism dressed up as self-interest.

As opposed to blind fundamentalism and self interest dressed up as an easy path to national prosperity.
 
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