Brexit: give me a positive effect... X

[tonerei]

Which bit was cut and paste and which bit was incorrect? As a non-UK person I don’t expect you to understand why 17.4m voted to leave the EU, though I would have though after thousands of posts from you here you would have a better idea by now.

I’m pleased you think you made a good point and saw fit to let yourself know. Trouble is, you didn’t.

Free tip: Slow down, son.

Cut and paste refers to your repetitive dirge about Tory enablers blah blah. It probably accounts for 50% of the thread count. Sorry that wasn't clear to you. I have my own understanding of why 17.4m voted and outlined it constantly here. What is yours?

Re good point that was obviously in reply to @Seeker_UK post. Nothing to do with congratulating myself.
Free tip: Slow down, son. Read and take in the detail.

 

[kabayiri]

It was specifically your second paragraph I took issue with, and the free pass it gave to the government regarding graft and incompetence. As I said, there is no need to be where we are now, and I have no patience with tory apologists trying to rewrite history.

I don't recall apologizing for the government. Their approach has been a long way from my preference.

I suppose this makes me autocratic, but I would have gone in heavy and hard in the early days of the virus. Thing is, there is always someone who will criticise your approach if you're in government. Boris is too much of a crowd pleaser

 

[NeilR]

I suppose this makes me autocratic

No, it means you would have done the right thing.

 

[TheDecameron]

It’s the repeating pattern in Johnson’s style of government- he both dithers and delays then does a full U-turn. It’s been remarked upon by political observers countless times. His delay at the start of the pandemic ultimately cost lives and many of the deaths were needless.
He might claim in mitigation that he had backbenches filled with ‘stop the lockdown, open up the economy, masks are muzzles, it’s just like a flu’ but he bears heavy responsibility particularly since he didn’t learn from experience ( a lifelong character trait) and repeated the same mistakes later in the pandemic even when he had the benefit of that experience.

Neither should we forget, there are malignant, contrarian self publicists still out there spreading misinformation and denial that will waste even more lives- Toby Young, Julia Hartley Brewer and Allison Pearson- all trousering cash to spread the message.

 

[ff1d1l]

I don't recall apologizing for the government. Their approach has been a long way from my preference.

I suppose this makes me autocratic, but I would have gone in heavy and hard in the early days of the virus. Thing is, there is always someone who will criticise your approach if you're in government. Boris is too much of a crowd pleaser

The UK is the source of an aggressive variant (B.1.1.7). That's why we have some of the worst case rates and death rates in the world.
This is what you said.
And that is diverting responsibility away from a corrupt and incompetent government, for the reasons I've already enumerated.
I don't really care what you would have done, but I do care that you hand those who could have averted this, and chose not to, and rather to profit from it, a free pass.

Lets not forget NZ deaths 25 individuals, Uk just passed 100,000. And there was no need.

 

[stevec67]

It’s the repeating pattern in Johnson’s style of government- he both dithers and delays then does a full U-turn. It’s been remarked upon by political observers countless times. His delay at the start of the pandemic ultimately cost lives and many of the deaths were needless.
He might claim in mitigation that he had backbenches filled with ‘stop the lockdown, open up the economy, masks are muzzles, it’s just like a flu’ but he bears heavy responsibility

Of course there are and they are there in any political party. John Major's "bastards" and Labour's 1980s "Militant Tendency" are out of the same set. At the end of the day any party leader, in or out of government, needs to have the grit to tell the outliers to STFU and get in line unless they want a shoeing off the Whip and reselection in the next GE to Glasgow South (if Conservative) or New Forest East (if Labour). Sheffield Brightside and/or South Holland await your compatriots sonny, don't think I won't do it, I have a pile of them, you can spend the next 30 years campaigning seats you'll never win.

particularly since he didn’t learn from experience ( a lifelong character trait) and repeated the same mistakes later in the pandemic even when he had the benefit of that experience.
.

Well, that's part and parcel of being "Shagger Johnson". You can take the man out of the Bullingdon Club.

 

[wacko]

I don't recall apologizing for the government. Their approach has been a long way from my preference.

I suppose this makes me autocratic, but I would have gone in heavy and hard in the early days of the virus. Thing is, there is always someone who will criticise your approach if you're in government. Boris is too much of a crowd pleaser

The difference is whether you have the approval of a clear majority of the country or not. In a word: leadership.

 

[Brian]

Which bit about 100,000 deaths is good?

You’re a funny one. Where did I say even 1 death is good?

 

[lagavullin10y]

Stop B117 from making inroads into mainland Europe, and we help them just as much.

It is expected to have taken over regular Covid by mid March already here.

 

[Brian]

Cut and paste refers to your repetitive dirge about Tory enablers blah blah. It probably accounts for 50% of the thread count. Sorry that wasn't clear to you. I have my own understanding of why 17.4m voted and outlined it constantly here. What is yours?

So not in the post you quoted then. Very good.

All I see from you constantly is dirge but that’s by the by. I’m glad you feel you can but I don’t speak for 17.4m people, however, I do believe tory austerity is an important factor you obviously don’t understand, hence why you dismiss it so easily. Not being part of the UK electorate doesn’t help you there when it comes to your view on why people voted for brexit. Whatever it is, I don’t care what you think about brexit. I don’t tell people in your country how to run your show, after all.

Re good point that was obviously in reply to @Seeker_UK post. Nothing to do with congratulating myself.
Free tip: Slow down, son. Read and take in the detail.

Brilliant appeal there, but yes, I know.

 

[TheDecameron]

Covid is a hellish problem for every country but the public here are going to take a mauling from Brexit’s economic damage in combination with the pandemic. The next six months are going to be very tricky.

 

[tonerei]

So not in the post you quoted then. Very good.

All I see from you constantly is dirge but that’s by the by. I’m glad you feel you can but I don’t speak for 17.4m people, however, I do believe tory austerity is an important factor you obviously don’t understand, hence why you dismiss it so easily. Not being part of the UK electorate doesn’t help you there when it comes to your view on why people voted for brexit. Whatever it is, I don’t care what you think about brexit. I don’t tell people in your country how to run your show, after all.


Brilliant appeal there, but yes, I know.

Free tip: Others aren’t as stupid as you.

So predictable and so ridiculous. I love when you come up with your nonsensical nonsense with dots joined up in all the wrong places and assertions made that are completely false.
It is your forte. No answer ever given to any question. But never mind I realize you stroke yourself in self satisfaction when you post this type of crap.

 

[richardg]

Conflating Brexit and Covid / vaccine roll out is dumb and pathetic.

I don't think so. Would UK have made the progress it has made on vaccine rollout if it was still in the EU? I think it would not have.

 

[Brian]

So predictable and so ridiculous. I love when you come up with your nonsensical nonsense with dots joined up in all the wrong places and assertions made that are completely false.
It is your forte. No answer ever given to any question. But never mind I realize you stroke yourself in self satisfaction when you post this type of crap.

“No answer ever given to any question”... LOL

 

[farfromthesun]

You’re a funny one. Where did I say even 1 death is good?

You said:

No doubt if it made the UK look bad and the EU good you would not have made this post, though I suspect you would have posted something.

The UK death toll looks very bad indeed, yet nobody came out and blamed it on Brexit, did they?

I don't think so. Would UK have made the progress it has made on vaccine rollout if it was still in the EU? I think it would not have.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/covid-vaccine-decisions-brexit

 

[Nic Robinson]

[moderating]

Some ad-hom content edited.

 

[ff1d1l]

You said:


The UK death toll looks very bad indeed, yet nobody came out and blamed it on Brexit, did they?


https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/covid-vaccine-decisions-brexit

You can blame it on brexit insofar as the government which took power due to FPTP on a brexit ticket has proved unequal to every aspect of dealing with the virus, except their own manufactured adjunct of using it as a way to shovel money into the pockets of MP's, MP's families and tory donors.
Until recently I would have cut them some slack re implementing the vaccine, but no, they just can't walk past an open tory pocket without they shovel public money in it, in this case 350m to Lord Ashcroft.

 

[doctorf]

Covid is a hellish problem for every country but the public here are going to take a mauling from Brexit’s economic damage in combination with the pandemic. The next six months are going to be very tricky.

It's a good job people like you & me can afford to pay more taxes to pay for it, Dec.

 

[doctorf]

I don't think so. Would UK have made the progress it has made on vaccine rollout if it was still in the EU? I think it would not have.

FWIW I think we would have done as well whether we were in or out.
We were never part of the EU Vaccine buyer's club and the one thing we have that none of the EU countries have, is a fantastic primary care network who actually care about getting the vaccine out, regardless of personal cost or difficulties.

 

[farfromthesun]

You can blame it on brexit insofar as the government which took power due to FPTP on a brexit ticket has proved unequal to every aspect of dealing with the virus, except their own manufactured adjunct of using it as a way to shovel money into the pockets of MP's, MP's families and tory donors.
Until recently I would have cut them some slack re implementing the vaccine, but no, they just can't walk past an open tory pocket without they shovel public money in it, in this case 350m to Lord Ashcroft.

Indeed, however the point I am trying to make here is quite subtle. It may be that your post is the first time that this point has been made here (I may be wrong, but it's certainly not prevalent.) Whereas those of a Brexit persuasion have jumped on it immediately, using it as a justification for their wretched decision and are completely oblivious to the vulgarity of it.