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Brexit: give me a positive effect... X

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ff1d1l said:
You can blame it on brexit insofar as the government which took power due to FPTP on a brexit ticket has proved unequal to every aspect of dealing with the virus, except their own manufactured adjunct of using it as a way to shovel money into the pockets of MP's, MP's families and tory donors.
Until recently I would have cut them some slack re implementing the vaccine, but no, they just can't walk past an open tory pocket without they shovel public money in it, in this case 350m to Lord Ashcroft.
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Was that one of the £350m/week allocations that was supposed to go to the NHS?
 
stephen bennett said:
I just heard Johnson say that he hopes ‘our European friends won’t break their contract’.

The hubris is astonishing.

Stephen
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Heard that on LBC earlier. You could hear a pin drop :). Has nobody told him that he would probably up his rating if he admitted that in hindsight he should have been tougher in the beginning? He certainly struggles on the auld gravitas. Asked about the 100K deaths he could barely talk about it before moving swiftly on.

The scale of the pandemic was laid bare when you compare the usual 8k deaths per annum from the flu. The CMO's comments from last year about keeping deaths to 20k would be a 'good' outcome. He was so right.
LBC's coverage this afternoon I thought was excellent.
 
droodzilla said:
Posting this with some trepidation:

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1354019140084916225

If Peston is correct, the EU's intervention did delay signing of the contract with AZ by two months.

Only thought is that it's a big if. Peston is one of the worst journalists in the UK and regularly regurgitates government spin with zero critical analysis. Maybe he's doing the same here on behalf of AZ (and siding with the UK government in the process).
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AFAIK, his thread is partially true. It isn't true AZ charges the same price to everyone (south Africa pays way more). Indeed, the Commission stepped in while the 'Vaccine Alliance' had already negotiated and agreed with AZ but it stepped in because several other Member States asked for it. They were concerned that their interests were not well represented by Germany, France and co, particularly on the price issue. So, they tasked the Commission to use part of the Emergency Support Instrument (limited to EUR 2.7 billion and it's not only for vaccines, it covers much more:https://ec.europa.eu/.../coronavirus-vaccines-strategy_en) and negotiate on behalf of everyone. At that time, EU countries were afraid of competition among members and assumed the Commission could represent everyone's interest better.

It's worth noting this instrument is a down-payment on the vaccines that will actually be purchased by Member States, which is why the Commission had to negotiate within budget constraints. The price has always been a major concern for Member States, particularly for frugal countries, and countries whose economies aren't in good shape. This is why several EU countries have purchased fewer doses of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines - the most expensive ones - than they were eligible to buy. Poland, for example, ordered only 6.6 million Moderna vaccines despite being eligible for over 13 million doses. Bulgaria secured 500,000 doses, about two million fewer than it could have purchased. The Netherlands has almost entirely bet on AZ vaccine, which is why they started their vaccination campaign after the others. Of course it looks dumb now, but it also reflects years of under investments.
So, there are many factors explaining why EU countries are lagging behind in their vaccination campaigns, and I do hope there will be a real discussion about it. However, right now, I'm afraid most people are just looking for simplistic answers and scapegoats to score political goals, which is exactly Peston's case. I think it's reasonable to assume that any country, the UK included, would react in a similar way as the EU's if it faced a similar issue with AZ. I really hope we'll soon get rid of that mentality from too many people in Europe and in the UK consisting of reacting to anything with either "Ha, major failure for Boris Johnson“, or, alternatively, "typical ghastly EU lying out of jealousy of our success“. I'm afraid it will be very hard to reestablish trust after Brexit between the EU countries and the UK.
 
Stunsworth said:
The government is offering financial incentives for EU citizens to leave the country...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...zens-offered-financial-incentives-to-leave-uk

I'm old enough to remember when the National Front were advocating similar policies.
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This country just gets more ugly and depressing by the day. I have no idea how many more alarm bells need to be read, but this is what far-right ethnic nationalism looks like. Thankfully Trump is gone from America, but the spirit and ideology is now so firmly rooted in the UK.

PS ...and the worst is yet to come as we’ve got a far-right Fox News style TV network on the way and ex-Daily Racist editor Paul Dacre is tipped for an Ofcom job. “And now the 6:00 Daily Immigrant Watch with Julia Hartley Brewer and Toby Young... tonight, gypsies? Do they belong in detention camps?...”.
 
Tony L said:
This country just gets more ugly and depressing by the day. I have no idea how many more alarm bells need to be read, but this is what far-right ethnic nationalism looks like. Thankfully Trump is gone from America, but the spirit and ideology is now so firmly rooted in the UK.
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The pettiness surrounding the EU ambassador is typically Trumpian—except even he didn't go that far.

Johnson's Government really, really hate Europeans.

Actions speak louder than empty words about 'our friends and partners'.

Stephen
 
As much as I dislike this government and consider them to be a far right fascist bunch of crooks,we have a long time before we have another election. Problem is I feel with the change of leadership in Labour they don’t seem to be making any progress. I still feel there is an opening for a more sensible party.
 
puddlesplasher said:
As much as I dislike this government and consider them to be a far right fascist bunch of crooks,we have a long time before we have another election. Problem is I feel with the change of leadership in Labour they don’t seem to be making any progress. I still feel there is an opening for a more sensible party.
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Please move south Nicola.
 
Pedro83 said:
AFAIK, his thread is partially true. It isn't true AZ charges the same price to everyone (south Africa pays way more). Indeed, the Commission stepped in while the 'Vaccine Alliance' had already negotiated and agreed with AZ but it stepped in because several other Member States asked for it. They were concerned that their interests were not well represented by Germany, France and co, particularly on the price issue. So, they tasked the Commission to use part of the Emergency Support Instrument (limited to EUR 2.7 billion and it's not only for vaccines, it covers much more:https://ec.europa.eu/.../coronavirus-vaccines-strategy_en) and negotiate on behalf of everyone. At that time, EU countries were afraid of competition among members and assumed the Commission could represent everyone's interest better.

It's worth noting this instrument is a down-payment on the vaccines that will actually be purchased by Member States, which is why the Commission had to negotiate within budget constraints. The price has always been a major concern for Member States, particularly for frugal countries, and countries whose economies aren't in good shape. This is why several EU countries have purchased fewer doses of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines - the most expensive ones - than they were eligible to buy. Poland, for example, ordered only 6.6 million Moderna vaccines despite being eligible for over 13 million doses. Bulgaria secured 500,000 doses, about two million fewer than it could have purchased. The Netherlands has almost entirely bet on AZ vaccine, which is why they started their vaccination campaign after the others. Of course it looks dumb now, but it also reflects years of under investments.
So, there are many factors explaining why EU countries are lagging behind in their vaccination campaigns, and I do hope there will be a real discussion about it. However, right now, I'm afraid most people are just looking for simplistic answers and scapegoats to score political goals, which is exactly Peston's case. I think it's reasonable to assume that any country, the UK included, would react in a similar way as the EU's if it faced a similar issue with AZ. I really hope we'll soon get rid of that mentality from too many people in Europe and in the UK consisting of reacting to anything with either "Ha, major failure for Boris Johnson“, or, alternatively, "typical ghastly EU lying out of jealousy of our success“. I'm afraid it will be very hard to reestablish trust after Brexit between the EU countries and the UK.
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Your detailed post sets out very precisely a non-too pretty story of deep mistrust between the member states of the EU, one which is sharply polarised with the narrative of 'EU solidarity' so lavishly (indeed 'slavishly') expounded on these threads.

You final sentence might well be be shortened to 'it will be very hard to reestablish trust between the EU countries after covid'.

That assumes the fantasy that trust ever existed. Post Euro-crisis, that was already impossible to contend.

Sorry to be the first to make a political point. I won't be the last.
 
stephen bennett said:
The pettiness surrounding the EU ambassador is typically Trumpian—except even he didn't go that far.

Johnson's Government really, really hate Europeans.

Actions speak louder than empty words about 'our friends and partners'.

Stephen
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You are conflating Europe and the EU again.
 
eternumviti said:
Your detailed post sets out very precisely a non-too pretty story of deep mistrust between the member states of the EU, one which is sharply polarised with the narrative of 'EU solidarity' so lavishly (indeed 'slavishly') expounded on these threads.

You final sentence might well be be shortened to 'it will be very hard to reestablish trust between the EU countries after covid'.

That assumes the fantasy that trust ever existed. Post Euro-crisis, that was already impossible to contend.

Sorry to be the first to make a political point. I won't be the last.
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A nice deflection from “the story of deep mistrust between U.K. members and the narrative of British solidarity so lavishly expounded by” Johnson’s and previous Tory governments.
 
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