Why can't I get all jazz

[ClaraBannister]

The racial aspect of jazz is interesting. While it was acceptable, even fashionable, for wealthy socialites to be driven to venues in Harlem and listen to black performers, the latter would not have been able to play for the college dances where people like Beiderbecke performed. They were all-white affairs.

 

[PaulMB]

If it's ok for classical to be endlessly reinterpreted then I'm ok with 'trane' stylists - it has'nt got to be pure every time (has it?). For some accessible Shepp try the duets with Horace Parlan on Steeplechase.

Superb post btw.

Yes, I suppose you are right about the 'Trane stylists. As I said, its just my personal problem. And thank you for the kind words, I'm blushing as I write.

 

[PaulMB]

The racial aspect of jazz is interesting. While it was acceptable, even fashionable, for wealthy socialites to be driven to venues in Harlem and listen to black performers, the latter would not have been able to play for the college dances where people like Beiderbecke performed. They were all-white affairs.

Its a bit like ships; the First Class passengers can wander around wherever they like, the others can't.

 

[dave charlton]

When you play Zorn you can hear Ayler. He is the cement in jazz history.

Jazz wise I think he comes more from a Jackie McLean / Ornette axis. Overall though I think he's on a level with Anthony Braxton.

 

[ClaraBannister]

Its a bit like ships; the First Class passengers can wander around wherever they like, the others can't.

I recall crossing from Dun Laoghaire (which my father still referred to as Kingstown) to Holyhead in the early sixties on the mail boat. We had the use of the restaurant, lounge etc. On deck was a wire fence about seven feet high, through which you could see emigrants sitting outside on their suitcases. In fine weather, not too bad to save some money, but it must have been a bit rough in the winter. At the time, it seemed to me to be the natural order of things but, in retrospect, it disturbs me rather. Some of those emigrants made a fortune working on buildings and motorways, but usually spent it just as quickly.

 

[blossomchris]

That's one of the things about jazz. How do the Original Dixieland Jazz Band fit alongside David S Ware or John Zorn?

There's improvisation, syncopation and, some would insist, swing. And if you have to ask what swing is... ;-)

So for someone to like all these styles would be rare?

 

[Take5]

Jazz wise I think he comes more from a Jackie McLean / Ornette axis. Overall though I think he's on a level with Anthony Braxton.

Any of the names mentioned are on a different level to Braxton. About 10 levels above.

Anyone who can play a C scale, on any instrument, over one octave, in crotchets, with anything approaching a steady pulse, is on a different level to Braxton.

Braxton is a charlatan.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[dave charlton]

Anyone who can play a C scale, on any instrument, over one octave, in crotchets, with anything approaching a steady pulse, is on a different level to Braxton.

I was referring to Braxton's musical vision not his alto playing. Pulse compositions are a Braxton thing however, I prefer his straight ahead alto playing as on Impressions here.

 

[blossomchris]

Grief, My opening post should have asked for power chord preferences also!

 

[martin clark]

Anyone who can play a C scale, on any instrument, over one octave, in crotchets, with anything approaching a steady pulse, is on a different level to Braxton

<G>

 

[Space is the Place]

"Where ever jazz is, I is. Bebop's my home." Howard Moon.


[YOUTUBE]bKwQ_zeRwEs&gl=GB&hl=en-GB[/YOUTUBE]

 

[blossomchris]

Excellent

This surrealism is real for me

Bloss

 

[dave charlton]

<G>

Don't fear jazz

 

[hockman]

Jazz wise I think he comes more from a Jackie McLean / Ornette axis. Overall though I think he's on a level with Anthony Braxton.

I think if you asked Zorn, he would deny that he is playing 'jazz'. Which I disagree with, at least some of the time. His Masada quartet is firmly in jazz territory in the vein of Ornette's classic quartets with Don Cherry.

Speaking of charlatans, Zorn is a bit of a charlatan himself. Never mind that, cause I still love a lot of his music except for the more challenging experimental stuff.

On a related front, David Murray was another 'free jazz' sax player with roots firmly in the tradition and who counted Ayler as one of his inspirations. I recently picked up his live CD in Berlin and am frankly disappointed. Sounds as if he has calcified; it just sounds like stuff he did a decade ago.

 

[dave charlton]

On a related front, David Murray was another 'free jazz' sax player with roots firmly in the tradition and who counted Ayler as one of his inspirations. I recently picked up his live CD in Berlin and am frankly disappointed. Sounds as if he has calcified; it just sounds like stuff he did a decade ago.

I think the problem with the Berlin CD is the recording not the playing. I don't know if you've seen the recording which I think put's the playing in a totally different light. To my ears and eyes Murray is carrying the torch. Seems like the BBC are the only ones who know how to record live jazz.

 

[Space is the Place]

I think the problem with the Berlin CD is the recording not the playing. I don't know if you've seen the recording which I think put's the playing in a totally different light. To my ears and eyes Murray is carrying the torch. Seems like the BBC are the only ones who know how to record live jazz.

Murray (the entire Quartet) definitely on another level there, incredible, thanks Dave not seen that before .

About recording live, i think the BBC team at Jazz on 3 pretty much nails the sound on the live recordings every time, its like the bands are in the room with you. A part one round-up of this years concerts and a good mix of different styles, something for everyone i feel.

 

[Anex]

Braxton and Zorn are charlatans. Oh dear, this thread has gone off the rails.
Certainly both could be accused of uninspiredness at times, perhaps even laziness, but charlatans, WTF. Zorn is one of the greatest living composers. I don't like all of his output by any means - I find some of his soundtrack series a bit tiring, but clearly the man knows more about music than the majority of other people alive today.

 

[blossomchris]

Not only off the rails but entering into orbit, and possibly alienating any jazz trainees

 

[Space is the Place]

Braxton and Zorn are charlatans. Oh dear, this thread has gone off the rails.

Indeed, and they were both never in The Charlatans either! (although Zorn could have been with his huge output )

Anyway this little ditty should put everything into orbit!

 

[sideshowbob]

Let's have some Roland Kirk. Worth watching all 45 minutes or so of this, it is fscking brilliant.