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who on the forum thinks all amps sound the same?

barrymidd said:
If your brain tells you there is a difference, then there most certainly is - to you. By the same reasoning I think, therefore I am and yet I cannot prove I exist at all.
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Best reply...ever!


I cannot prove I exist at all
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That must be quite annoying at the shops,

'Hello, I'd like a pint of milk, please...HELLO, I SAID I'D LIKE...'

Priceless!
 
barrymidd said:
If your brain tells you there is a difference, then there most certainly is - to you. By the same reasoning I think, therefore I am and yet I cannot prove I exist at all.
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Did Descartes run a top end Naim system? I bet he was just longing for that second power supply for his 555!
 
When did we, for instance last hear words like 'measuring for inter-modulation' -the pulsing inter-action between various disparate frequencies? Yet it can be a greater 'nasty' than some other forms of harmonic distortion. It still happens as part of the amplifier reproduction chain. It did not simply magically disappear at any time , by someone forgetting or wanting to 'overlook' the problem. Perhaps that is what today, some amp makers would quietly claim, makes their amplification sound 'unique'?
 
barrymidd said:
If your brain tells you there is a difference, then there most certainly is - to you. By the same reasoning I think, therefore I am and yet I cannot prove I exist at all.
Click to expand...
If you push a grain of sand, you have moved the World a slight step on its axis:)
 
It seems to me both groups here are basically heading to the conclusion that amps do sound different. One group believes it's purely an interface problem and the other thinks it's caused by problems inherent in the design which may or may not be currently measurable. The result is the same considering both groups have to live with them connected to real world (imperfect) devices.
 
ter said:
Can we see all those Hi Fi amp designers experimenting in their factories? Toggling and twisting things on a new amp design, clearly altering the sound back and forth. But nervously, simultaneously also looking at their test meters. One finally exclaiming......
" Look Fred, I just then got you the PRAT sound you wanted, and surprisingly the test meter needle points have not changed a bit since we started and had that laid back sound I wanted " D:D:D:D
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So, are you saying that amps with "PRaT" do actually sound the same as those without?

IOW "all amplifiers sound the same!"?
 
ter said:
Expensive ?... It could depend only: in which country you happen to live. In the Asia-Pacific and the U.S they are very competitive price-wise. The same point you make, can easily to leveled at European brands landing in foreign areas. It is all a matter of 'location-relative'. The really main draw back I find to Sony is that they may come out with an exceptional amp - in say, one year. But then, not capitalizing on any accolades, they may not follow it up with progressive improvements to that same model: as other manufacturers do, like Yamaha or Pioneer. Instead, Sony may simply drop that line of product trajectory... and go off in another entire direction, producing something very different. And people wait around...to finally see another exceptional product. They lose patience after a while and drift to other price competing brands.... Sony is its own worst enemy at locking in, 'brand loyalty'.
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I was joking, sort of. I'm comparing Sony with other mass-market brands, not hi-fi brands. Do Pioneer and Yamaha make cheap portable radios? In the UK at least, Sony are seen as being at the pricey end of the electronics mass-market, although the build quality often justifies the price. A better comparison might be Philips.
 
barrymidd said:
My point was that whatever happens in your brain is reality to you. I think you will find that an inarguable point.
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LOL...'tried that one here before and was insulted left and right as being delusional. Seems if my delusion isn't the same as your delusion I'm the one that's actually delusional;-)

best,

dave
 
Nothing to do with amps, but stevea and I compared his Pioneer PL-71 with my LP12 yesterday. We both preferred the better clarity, dynamics and intelligibility of the Linn. That said, the Pioneer was not lacking in boogie either. We both pointed the finger at the different carts.

Was the perceived difference real, or did we expect the Linn to be supreme?

James
 
James said:
Nothing to do with amps, but stevea and I compared his Pioneer PL-71 with my LP12 yesterday. We both preferred the better clarity, dynamics and intelligibility of the Linn. That said, the Pioneer was not lacking in boogie either. We both pointed the finger at the different carts.

Was the perceived difference real, or did we expect the Linn to be supreme?

James
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Group A: the Pioneer is clearly superior as it's made by a large Japanese manufacturer that has technical resources Linn could only dream of. It's also an Internet Fact that Linn are the Spawn of Satan and purely interested in world domination via mind control substances smeared over all products before shipping but your highly logical thought processes outwitted them despite the chemicals.

Group B: Your Linn and/or system was clearly broken, modified or unmodified if it couldn't out pace the PL71 as it's the hallmark of the design. Get your dealer 'round to sort whatever abomination you've created.

..and they all lived happily ever after.
 
dave said:
Group A: the Pioneer is clearly superior as it's made by a large Japanese manufacturer that has tehnical resources Linn could only dream of. It's also an Internet Fact that Linn are the Spawn of Satan and purely interested in world domination via mind control substances smeared over all products before shipping but your highly logical thought processes outwitted them despite the chemicals.

Group B: Your Linn and/or system was clearly broken, modified or unmodified if it couldn't out pace the PL71 as it's the hallmark of the design. Get your dealer 'round to sort whatever abomination you've created..
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Group C: WTF?! Vinyl is a clearly inferior medium. Both turntables sound 'broken' next to a £40 Blu Ray player.

Group D: Get with teh program, grandad! All you need is a MacBook and Airport Express to better any physical format ever invented.
 
barrymidd said:
.... By the same reasoning I think, therefore I am and yet I cannot prove I exist at all.
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...........................................................................

If l hit my head on an amplifier, l can be fairly sure that l exist - the clue is in the pain. So that proves to me that l exist. Also, my vocal reaction may alert others to my existence. It’s a kind of elementary proof to others that l exist.
 
Nik said:
I was joking, sort of. I'm comparing Sony with other mass-market brands, not hi-fi brands. Do Pioneer and Yamaha make cheap portable radios? ..............
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Others elsewhere, may think the opposite is true of many so called 'small market Hi Fi brands'. . Struck in the days of Noah's Ark, using superseded chips that the 'mass market giants' may have dished out, they no longer need - for those making now tired old 2 channel dodo set -ups. Yet 'basket cased concerns' still redundantly want to assemble, for some strange reason. The rest of the World has gone full discrete multi-channel capability- ready, amps long ago..Now we see them having Wii, USB's and Ipod facilities. How many 2 channel amps have computer compatibility ? These are modern times. Nor are they buying sets of 'junk speakers' either. Cashed up they are buying a full package of very respected brand speakers to fit the multi channel systems or perhaps throwing existing respected stereo speakers into the mix of their multi speaker array. That is the situation and attitude I am seeing in peoples' buying patterns. What I find strange too, is if one switches some of these Multi units to 2 channel and listens... they can easily rival /or beat on an A/B comparison (in the same room) 2 channel amps from so called small market 'superior' manufacturers .If price comparisons are taken into consideration....it becomes even a more laughable ridiculous situation

It is like when I got hold of and read an old copy of the Gramophone from the 'start of stereo'...and saw contributing readers complaining about 'how the wife will not let a second speaker in the sitting room' and then reinforced their [pathetic comments with a final protest that 'stereo is, but a distortion of beautiful mono sound'. :)
Its True!

I see the present changing situation as another reactive knee jerk of those with similar persuasions.
 
Norman Green said:
...........................................................................

If l hit my head on an amplifier, l can be fairly sure that l exist - the clue is in the pain. So that proves to me that l exist. Also, my vocal reaction may alert others to my existence. It’s a kind of elementary proof to others that l exist.
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Or you could have dreamed it all and if it still hurts, you are still dreaming.
 
ter said:
Others elsewhere, may think the opposite is true of many so called 'small market Hi Fi brands'. . Struck in the days of Noah's Ark, using superseded chips that the 'mass market giants' may have dished out, they no longer need - for those making now tired old 2 channel dodo set -ups. Yet 'basket cased concerns' still redundantly want to assemble, for some strange reason. The rest of the World has gone full discrete multi-channel capability- ready, amps long ago..Now we see them having Wii, USB's and Ipod facilities. How many 2 channel amps have computer compatibility ? These are modern times. Nor are they buying sets of 'junk speakers' either. Cashed up they are buying a full package of very respected brand speakers to fit the multi channel systems or perhaps throwing existing respected stereo speakers into the mix of their multi speaker array. That is the situation and attitude I am seeing in peoples' buying patterns. What I find strange too, is if one switches some of these Multi units to 2 channel and listens... they can easily rival /or beat on an A/B comparison (in the same room) 2 channel amps from so called small market 'superior' manufacturers .If price comparisons are taken into consideration....it becomes even a more laughable ridiculous situation

It is like when I got hold of and read an old copy of the Gramophone from the 'start of stereo'...and saw contributing readers complaining about 'how the wife will not let a second speaker in the sitting room' and then reinforced their [pathetic comments with a final protest that 'stereo is, but a distortion of beautiful mono sound'. :)
Its True!

I see the present changing situation as another reactive knee jerk of those with similar persuasions.
Click to expand...
Not sure how we got here. :D I was just suggesting that if mass market makers make amps just as capable as specialist ones and we should buy Sony, Sony might be more expensive than we actually need.
 
Basil said:
S-Man,

Did you miss this?

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No, that is exactly why I made this pint hic, sorry point:

"So we should all be using HT stuff, then we can be more easliy fooled into thinking we are hearing the voices and instruments we see on the screen.

Ditch your 2 ch everyone! "
 
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Joe Hutch said:
Group C: WTF?! Vinyl is a clearly inferior medium. Both turntables sound 'broken' next to a £40 Blu Ray player.
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Actually, stevea prefers his PL-71 to his CDX2. Maybe he should replace his CDP with a BRP.

Joe Hutch said:
Group D: Get with teh program, grandad! All you need is a MacBook and Airport Express to better any physical format ever invented.
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Haha! This is good advice. I really must try computer audio. Where's my walking stick?

James
 
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