advertisement


who on the forum thinks all amps sound the same?

You lot need therapy. The electronics are but a tiny part of what you hear and so by rote, so are any measurements you make. 2 amps that measure the same or similar, (pick any arbitrary parameter to measure) can and almost always do sound markedly different. The degree of difference is at least partially proportional to how well trained the listeners ears are.
 
2 amps that measure the same or similar, (pick any arbitrary parameter to measure) can and almost always do sound markedly different.
Click to expand...

And do these 'differences' remain when you don't know which amp you're listening to?
 
No it's not.
Click to expand...

Well, it is pantomine season...

Oh yes it is!

There are different aspects to fidelity. You might not be able to have them all so you have to take your pick of a balance of compromises which is subjective.
 
There are different aspects to fidelity.
Click to expand...
For example?

You might not be able to have them all so you have to take your pick of a balance of compromises which is subjective.
Click to expand...
This isn't implied. If there were 'different aspects to fidelity' then we could certainly qualify and rank them objectively.

And in the context of an amplifier I think we can define completely what is required for fidelity, regardless of human hearing ability.

Paul
 
darrylfunk said:
your opening questions are opposites obviously but kind of miss the point i was making.....

i asked a simple question regarding the common assumption that a few posters on pfm think that some other posters believe 'all amps sound the same' .....now as far as we have gone in this topic not a single user has said all amps sound the same....some have even postulated that it is possible for 2 identical amps to sound and even possibly measure different due to component level variables.

the only point of me asking the question was to find out if people who accuse others of blindly believing all amps sound the same then we would find out who they were.
but there are not any pfm members who agree with the premise in my opening question.

i do hope this clears up any confusion.

regards.
d.
Click to expand...
All amplifiers: clearly not. But surely the claim (that some other posters believe 'all amps sound the same') doesn't mean that; it's meant in the Peter Walker sense.
 
barrymidd said:
You lot need therapy. The electronics are but a tiny part of what you hear and so by rote, so are any measurements you make. 2 amps that measure the same or similar, (pick any arbitrary parameter to measure) can and almost always do sound markedly different. The degree of difference is at least partially proportional to how well trained the listeners ears are.
Click to expand...

hi barry,
do you play any instruments or do any audio engineering like recording, mixing or mastering ?
 
darrylfunk said:
hi barry,
do you play any instruments or do any audio engineering like recording, mixing or mastering ?
Click to expand...
No, but I listen to/test an awful lot of diverse hifi equipment. I have been involved in hifi since the 60s and know some of the hifi "gurus". Some people also use my system as a reference when developing/evaluating stuff.
 
Steven Toy said:
If something measures well it will likely sound good but this is by no means certain so subjective listening is still necessary.
Click to expand...
Does this mean if something doesn't measure well, it will likely sound bad?
If not, what's the connection?
 
barrymidd said:
No, but I listen to/test an awful lot of diverse hifi equipment. I have been involved in hifi since the 60s and know some of the hifi "gurus". Some people also use my system as a reference when developing/evaluating stuff.
Click to expand...

can i ask who and roughly what gear you have as i am curious as you sound like you are in a similar position to me, we may have even met as i used to be in the trade....
 
James said:
Does this mean if something doesn't measure well, it will likely sound bad?
If not, what's the connection?
Click to expand...
If it measures badly, it will be less "accurate". Whether this sounds "bad" is another matter.

Are you suggesting that designers should make no attempt to achieve "good" (some arbitrary standard easily achieved decades ago) objective performance?
 
Nik said:
If it measures badly, it will be less "accurate". Whether this sounds "bad" is another matter.

Are you suggesting that designers should make no attempt to achieve "good" (some arbitrary standard easily achieved decades ago) objective performance?
Click to expand...
Not at all. A solid objective performance is a good starting position. The question remains, 'which' objective measures matter.

James
 
Coming to the thread a bit late, but the most recent three or four amps I've owned definitely sound different and in ways I could quite easily describe. However, I assume that's because of slight variations in how those amps are 'voiced', that is, their deviation from a perfectly flat EQ. Variations that I expect could be easily measured. E.g. A t-amp I have sounds slightly rolled off at the top end, a 'studio' amp I briefly had was the opposite, and very bright.

However, I can easily believe that many well designed amps ARE effectively indistinguishable in blind tests.
 
darrylfunk said:
can i ask who and roughly what gear you have as i am curious as you sound like you are in a similar position to me, we may have even met as i used to be in the trade....
Click to expand...
Darryl
Sorry, I have only just seen this.
I live not far from GT Audio and Graham is a longstanding friend. I helped develop the plinths for Loricraft and Terry O'Sullivan and I go way back. In another life I used to know John Michell and Stewart Tyler who were both in Borehamwood which is just up the road. I also used to know Les W but that was many years ago.
My longstanding system is:
Sonus Faber Electa Amator mk1s
Audio Research SP10
Audio Research D125 (I used to have M100 monos but that is a long story)
Heavily modified Thorens TD125/Rega RB300/Shure V15 mk4/JICO SAS
Marantz CD80
Airport Express streaming from my Mac.
All solid silver cables/interconnects (made by me)
There is a plethora of other kit that gets swapped in and out, including Naim 32.5 and 135s and as I said, I am always evaluating something for people like GT (TRON) and other audiophile friends. My main interest these days is in turntables and vinyl replay in general. I modify vintage decks and build plinths and do setups for people. I am in Watford by the way and will probably have met you at some time because as you know, hifi is a very small world, especially in this country.
 
mat_mcg said:
However, I can easily believe that many well designed amps ARE effectively indistinguishable in blind tests.
Click to expand...

It depends what you mean by blind, IMO. :)

The guy that designs the amps I use has, currently, 3 different 100w amps. They have evolved over time and all sound slightly different - this is, played with the same speakers and source. Their gain is the same but there are slight differences in the various stages of the circuit ... hence the difference in their sound.

I can hear the difference between them but I certainly couldn't reliably pick which amp corresponded to which sound, if they were behind a curtain (ie. "blind").

So given these 3 amps are all from a "family" (and have similar distortion specs) and yet they all sound different ... there's no doubt in my mind that amps from different mfrs all have their own sound. :)

Regards,

Andy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top