advertisement


War declared, Israel v Palestine...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718562355435516246

An interesting reflection on the BBC from Martyn Ware (Human League/Heaven17).

Edit: posted below in full as the embedding of multiple Tweets may not work for some:

“An interesting story…A few years ago, I was asked onto BBC World Service TV to comment on George Michael’s death (I knew him well). I was chatting to the presenter before going live - she asked what I’d been up to recently. I told her I’d just returned from Palestine…

… as part of a multi faith charity mission. Her response was ‘we don’t mention the word Palestine at the BBC’. I was astounded - ‘why’ I said. ‘Because it doesn’t exist’ was her reply. I informed her that it is recognised by almost all countries, including the UN…

She immediately started backtracking when she realised I knew what I was talking about.

This was the main presenter on BBC World Service - worldwide.

From that moment, I never listened to BBC news output again.”
 
doctorf said:
Where there’s a Jew there’s always an opinion, so it is not surprising that there are a few who will speak at pro Palestinian rallies. At least they don’t get attacked by other Jews. Show me a Muslim who would dare to speak at a pro Israel rally.
Click to expand...
That has nothing to say to what I posted.

Many Muslims do speak out against Hamas atrocities.
 
I found the video below to be a very interesting watch - It provides a good amount of background and historical information while also theorising on the various scenarios on how this could escalate to other states in the region. It also came across as being pretty balanced which is a rarity in this day an age

 
PaulMB said:
Yes, and she is probably right. Did anyone else; French? Italians? Germans? Austrians? Ukrainians?
Click to expand...
Without knowing too much of the history it seems Jewish communities were mostly helped by individuals and groups - often against the wishes of their own governments. Perhaps there's a lesson there for us all.
 
paulfromcamden said:
Without knowing too much of the history it seems Jewish communities were mostly helped by individuals and groups - often against the wishes of their own governments. Perhaps there's a lesson there for us all.
Click to expand...
France was split as we know as the disastrous Popular Front collapsed. Being unable to resist the Nazis was a very different proposition from welcoming them in some collaborated and some didn't. Certainly various Royals, Tories and other elements of the establishment, Daily Mail etc would have welcomed them here in similar circumstances...
 
A fascinating glimpse of holy war in an American evangelical style...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717248254453162379

"Guests included Ted Cruz, Tom Cotton, Rep. Tom Emmer, and the Israeli Ambassador to the UN"

I'm sure Israel puts lots of effort into maintaining support from these evangelical crackpots with big pockets.

Here is the same pastor with a certain someone...

F9ZpHKaWwAAbvIT
 
paulfromcamden said:
Without knowing too much of the history it seems Jewish communities were mostly helped by individuals and groups - often against the wishes of their own governments. Perhaps there's a lesson there for us all.
Click to expand...
Jews were, sometimes, helped by individuals. And sometimes by Catholic institutions. But the political elements of the right, the centre and and the left, or what was left of them after Nazi occupation, were not concerned. One thing I know is that in Italy, where during the 1930s there was a well organised Communist and Socialist opposition to the Mussolini, mostly in exile in France, there were no protests regarding the introduction of the "Race Laws" in 1938.
 
PaulMB said:
Jews were, sometimes, helped by individuals. And sometimes by Catholic institutions. But the political elements of the right, the centre and and the left, or what was left of them after Nazi occupation, were not concerned. One thing I know is that in Italy, where during the 1930s there was a well organised Communist and Socialist opposition to the Mussolini, mostly in exile in France, there were no protests regarding the introduction of the "Race Laws" in 1938.
Click to expand...
Yes if we reflect on the history of Europe in the first half of the 20th century I think it should perhaps give us pause before holding up The West as a bastion of civilisation.
 
gavreid said:
France was split as we know as the Popular Front collapsed. Being unable to resist the Nazis was a very different proposition from welcoming them in some collaborated and some didn't. Certainly various Royals, Tories and other elements of the establishment, Daily Mail etc would have welcomed them here...
Click to expand...
From what I've been reading over the past few years, France's record is a good deal more shameful than we were brought up to believe on the basis of French post-war "nation building" mythology.
There were substantial forces in politics and the military, anti-Communist right, that were pro-Nazi even before France was overcome by the Germans. And significant parts of the Left that, after the German-Soviet Molotov-Ribbentrop pact were in some doubt as to who the enemy was. After the German takeover and the establishment of the Vichy government, the French authorities, with very few exceptions, collaborated completely with the Germans. It was, for instance, the French police that rounded up Jews for the Germans.

Very few Frenchmen followed De Gaulle to London. As one writer put it, in so many words:
" De Gaulle came from the conservative, Catholic provincial gentry and was a career officer. He disliked both Jews and Communists. But when he went to London, practically the only people who rallyied to his banner were Jews and Communists."
As for "La Resistance." it only really came into being after Germany attacked Russia, since at that point the Left could see whose side they should be on.
And during the war itself, there were strong elements under the Vichy government that wanted an alliance with Nazi Germany, to restore French power and prestige.
 
PaulMB said:
From what I've been reading over the past few years, France's record is a good deal more shameful than we were brought up to believe on the basis of French post-war "nation building" mythology.
Click to expand...
I'd agree with that. The Popular Front strategy of the Socialists and Communists was a disaster. Blum of course went to Buchenwald but survived. It's a different proposition under occupation than beforehand and a lot of myths were told after the war. There wasn't a great deal of resistance on the Channel Islands, for example as they were densely occupied with Germans, unusually so, but there was a little. The history of collaboration is only now being told.
 
paulfromcamden said:
Without knowing too much of the history it seems Jewish communities were mostly helped by individuals and groups - often against the wishes of their own governments. Perhaps there's a lesson there for us all.
Click to expand...
If you want some really inspiring stories, go to the "Righteous among the nations" section in the Yad Vashem site:


They include Princess Alice, Prince Philip's mother:

 

WHO concerned by reports of warning to bomb Gaza hospital​

As reported on Al Jazeera, the WHO head says reports the Palestinian Red Crescent received warnings from the Israeli authorities to immediately evacuate al-Quds Hospital in the Gaza Strip were “deeply concerning”.
“We reiterate – it’s impossible to evacuate hospitals full of patients without endangering their lives,” Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said on X.
The hospital is located in the Tel al-Hawa area of the Gaza Strip.
The @PalestineRCS report of evacuation threats to Al-Quds hospital in Gaza is deeply concerning.
We reiterate – it’s impossible to evacuate hospitals full of patients without endangering their lives.
Under International Humanitarian Law, healthcare must always be protected.
— Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus (@DrTedros) October 29, 2023
Click to expand...

In addition, a "massive" pro-Palestine rally in Islamabad:

The turnout is enormous. This is the largest pro-Palestine rally witnessed in Pakistan since Israel’s war on Gaza began.
People, including women and children, have gathered from all over to participate in this protest and demonstrate their solidarity with the Palestinian people.
Protests are also taking place in other cities.
The Pakistani government has not been as vocal as the people here would have liked. Those attending the rally here are expressing considerable anger at what they perceive as inaction by the international community in stopping Israel’s bombardments.
 
Just watched Trumps latest speech to Jewish Conservatives, i won't link to it it was horrific, a milder section had him threatening to hunt down those immigrants who are taking part in pro Palestinian protests and deporting them.
 
Last edited:
notaclue said:
A fascinating glimpse of holy war in an American evangelical style...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717248254453162379

"Guests included Ted Cruz, Tom Cotton, Rep. Tom Emmer, and the Israeli Ambassador to the UN"

I'm sure Israel puts lots of effort into maintaining support from these evangelical crackpots with big pockets.

Here is the same pastor with a certain someone...

F9ZpHKaWwAAbvIT
Click to expand...

In fact, this full-on apocalyptic lunatic* (who believes God is going to destroy Iran and Russia and every other "Jew-hating nation") even has his friend Netanyahu as a guest on his loony tunes broadcasts.

"Hagee Ministries is excited to present a very special interview with two long-time friends, Pastor John Hagee and former Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu."

This sort of religious zealousness is something that means 'peace in our time' in the Middle East is looking highly unlikely. As with Hamas et al, it's not what their books want or prophesise.

* Or he could be a charlatan playing the part purely for the cash, of course.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top