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War declared, Israel v Palestine...

There very clearly now must be a big push from the unions to escalate the BDS movement and to take on the Government bans in the workplaces and Councils. The demonstrations, while magnificant and important just now, will eventually dwindle if this is the sole focus. This needs to become as significant as the first Apartheid struggle - remember that it's the Palestinians calling for BDS not Jeremy Corbyn ;)

bdsmovement.net

What is BDS?

bdsmovement.net bdsmovement.net
 
The other countries that abstained in the UN vote is an interesting list. Australia host Israeli airforce training and have some dodgy history - the indigenous people only got in the census after 1967 and the recent constitutional amendment to give them some voice rejected.
 
Tony L said:
The idea climate science denier, Islamophobe, MMR vaccine skeptic, homophobe and all-round bigot for hire Melanie Philips (Wikipedia) speaks for British Jews has long since been disproved. It is actually safe to say the reverse of her opinion is always true.
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Elements of that panel debate were depressing: blame “the Left, the Guardian, Labour, Corbyn”. They were lumped in with haters from both fringes of the political spectrum on social media. You support Palestinians’ right to self determination, therefore you became a terrorist supporter and antisemite because Palestinians are terrorists.
 
TheDecameron said:
Elements of that panel debate were depressing: blame “the Left, the Guardian, Labour, Corbyn”. They were lumped in with haters from both fringes of the political spectrum on social media. You support Palestinians’ right to self determination, therefore you became a terrorist supporter and antisemite because Palestinians are terrorists.
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I didn’t watch it as I don’t want my YouTube feed filling up with Trump/QAnon, anti-science conspiracy theory or related far-right bullshit, and the presence of Melanie Philips pretty much guarantees that. What you describe is exactly what I’d expect.
 
dave charlton said:
Views from other British Jews -

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I was replying to @doctorf who appeared to doubt the existence of Jews speaking out for Palestine. That claim has been comprehensively debunked by other members too.

I'm aware that this is not the majority view among British Jews, but it is a significant minority.

The Jewish woman who spoke at the rally had lost several family members in the Holocaust but was eloquent, humane and brave in her support for Gaza in these dark times. I would rather look to her for a moral lead than far-right racist scum like Melanie Phillips.
 
TheDecameron said:
Elements of that panel debate were depressing: blame “the Left, the Guardian, Labour, Corbyn”. They were lumped in with haters from both fringes of the political spectrum on social media. You support Palestinians’ right to self determination, therefore you became a terrorist supporter and antisemite because Palestinians are terrorists.
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It is the natural continuation of the "Corbyn's Labour is overrun with anti-Semites" smear. It worked brilliantly then, so why change a winning formula?
 
droodzilla said:
I was replying to @doctorf who appeared to doubt the existence of Jews speaking out for Palestine. That claim has been comprehensively debunked by other members too.

I'm aware that this is not the majority view among British Jews, but it is a significant minority.

The Jewish woman who spoke at the rally had lost several family members in the Holocaust but was eloquent, humane and brave in her support for Gaza in these dark times. I would rather look to her for a moral lead than far-right racist scum like Melanie Phillips.
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I didn’t say that.
 
ks.234 said:
There have obviously been a number of Jewish speakers at rallies and events around the country but the point made by @Seanm that Muslims are required to condemn Hamas before they are listened to in a way that pro Isreali’s are not is significant because it frames the whole narrative in terms of attributing guilt to one side.

There seems a determined agenda to play amplify the Hamas atrocity, while denying the war crimes, oppression, illegal occupations of Isreal.
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Where there’s a Jew there’s always an opinion, so it is not surprising that there are a few who will speak at pro Palestinian rallies. At least they don’t get attacked by other Jews. Show me a Muslim who would dare to speak at a pro Israel rally.
 
gavreid said:
Israel has always denied having nuclear weapons and has failed to sign the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT), despite international pressure. It probably though has a few hundred at least (according to the US) - bombs, missiles and sub lauched cruise missiles. They're probably all US and might well be under US control to some degree. I would be very hard to believe anything they were home brewing in the 50s and 60s, with the naive French Government of the time, is still viable (The UK replaced Polaris in the 80s and the Tridents are again being replaced.)
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Just to cheer people up. (sic) I can point out that making a low-yield 'dirty' bomb is a lot easier than making a high-yield 'efficient' one. The drawback is knowing where the resulting bulk of highly radioactive fallout may go. But modern tech would enable making such devcies a lot easier than back in WW2 days.
 
doctorf said:
Where there’s a Jew there’s always an opinion, so it is not surprising that there are a few who will speak at pro Palestinian rallies. At least they don’t get attacked by other Jews. Show me a Muslim who would dare to speak at a pro Israel rally.
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They do often get attacked by other Jews and again, not hard to find Muslims speaking out against the October 7 atrocities or even speaking in support of the Israeli state. To pose your own question back to you I really do wonder where you get your information from sometimes, lots of commonplace things seem to be coming as a complete surprise to you.
 
TheDecameron said:
Elements of that panel debate were depressing: blame “the Left, the Guardian, Labour, Corbyn”. They were lumped in with haters from both fringes of the political spectrum on social media. You support Palestinians’ right to self determination, therefore you became a terrorist supporter and antisemite because Palestinians are terrorists.
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Ironic that they are calling supporters of Palestinian's rights antisemitic. Palestinians are Semites too, and ultimately both sides are descended from the same ancestors.
 
Nick_G said:
Ironic that they are calling supporters of Palestinian's rights antisemitic. Palestinians are Semites too, and ultimately both sides are descended from the same ancestors.
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It's been going on, in my direct experience since the 80s. Probably a lot longer as those older than me will be able to say. As a student in Manchester it was very difficult to do anything with the Palestinian groups as it was a centre of the UJS organisation and they saw to it that their stalls and meetings were disrupted. It was at the time of the First Intifada. There were a few jewish students though who were brave enough to speak out.
 
Seanm said:
They do often get attacked by other Jews and again, not hard to find Muslims speaking out against the October 7 atrocities or even speaking in support of the Israeli state. To pose your own question back to you I really do wonder where you get your information from sometimes, lots of commonplace things seem to be coming as a complete surprise to you.
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We live in different worlds Sean.
I’m happy with mine, thanks.
 
Israel Defense Forces continued their campaign of heavy bombing against the Gaza Strip on Sunday morning, combining artillery strikes with air power and tanks.

The IDF was firing artillery rounds and mortars from outside the border to the east, while machine gunfire was heard from within the Gaza Strip.

Drones, helicopters and F-16 fighter jets were seen flying overhead.

The IDF said that helicopters, under the direction of IDF tanks, were striking Hamas targets in the north of the Gaza Strip.

Artificial smoke has been seen billowing from near the perimeter, likely intended to obscure the visibility from across the border.

edition.cnn.com

CNN team near Gaza hears constant explosions as IDF continues heavy bombing of strip on Sunday

Israel says the next stage of its war with Hamas has begun after expanding its ground operations in Gaza. Meanwhile, the humanitarian crisis in the enclave is deepening. Follow for live updates.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com
 
foxwelljsly said:
Can you imagine if the UK had bombed Dublin ‘because the IRA’?
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Well, as a brief aside to the thread, yes, I can absolutely imagine that! Sounds like the sort of thing the UK might well have done in a different era. Look, for example, at the bombing of Iraq in the 1920s.

"Arthur Harris, a young RAF squadron commander (later nicknamed "Bomber"), reported after a mission in 1924, "The Arab and Kurd now know what real bombing means, in casualties and damage. They know that within 45 minutes a full-sized village can be practically wiped out and a third of its inhabitants killed or injured"."

Plus these sort of comparisons don't really work because the IRA didn't have a religious zeal to recapture the whole of the British Isles from the Anglo-Saxon occupiers, for example, and the IRA never had a founding charter that talked about killing Anglo-Saxons. And the IRA never committed an atrocity anywhere near as bad as October 7th. Nothing even on the same planet.
 
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