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UK Election 2015 (part III)

You have to be a pretty magnanimous Briton to want Scotland to stay. Go and stew is the natural response.

But there's an election in Scotland next May. So nothing irrevocable until then perhaps. The SNP need to be tested on their record with the really quite wide powers they already deploy, on education, health, income tax, boring stuff like that.

Paul
 
KC Cantiaci said:
I think it depends on whether people/the Government want Scotland to go or stay. I think Cameron should offer full fiscal autonomy to Scotland ASAP.....as in, really soon. The EU referendum, or the result, will be a trigger for the SNP to call for another UK exit referendum.....I believe they're counting on it.

If the UK vote to exit the EU, but Scotland on its own doesn't, they'll want a referendum for sure and if things stand as they are, the SNP might get what they ultimately want. But if Scotland is virtually running its own economy under fiscal autonomy, the electorate will be better placed to make a decision because they'll be able to see if all that the SNP promises is worth the additional taxes likley required to pay for it......oil price depending of course.
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Liking this proposal to have Scotland and England run separate, parallel EU in/out referendums. Wales and N.I might want the same option open to them.
 
KC Cantiaci said:
I think it depends on whether people/the Government want Scotland to go or stay. I think Cameron should offer full fiscal autonomy to Scotland ASAP.....as in, really soon. The EU referendum, or the result, will be a trigger for the SNP to call for another UK exit referendum.....I believe they're counting on it.

If the UK vote to exit the EU, but Scotland on its own doesn't, they'll want a referendum for sure and if things stand as they are, the SNP might get what they ultimately want. But if Scotland is virtually running its own economy under fiscal autonomy, the electorate will be better placed to make a decision because they'll be able to see if all that the SNP promises is worth the additional taxes likley required to pay for it......oil price depending of course.
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but Maj would be ever so cross with bad iggle piggle, David. I don't think he wants to enable the breakup of her Kingdom.
 
The Far North said:
Is that the "natural response" to the 55% that voted No in the referendum? :confused:
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Down to 50% now. Can you say to Nicola, 'No, you only have the support of 45-50% of Scots, so go away?'

The Scots are stuffed by the SNP whichever way they vote. The majority of Britons need to do whatever is necessary to make the noise go away for a while.

Paul
 
Paul R said:
Down to 50% now. Can you say to Nicola, 'No, you only have the support of 45-50% of Scots, so go away?'

The Scots are stuffed by the SNP whichever way they vote. The majority of Britons need to do whatever is necessary to make the noise go away for a while.

Paul
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Yep. These people are a total liability, chasing their romantic dream of freedom from the shackles of the Barnett formula. The Neds will support this folly.
 
CliveGrace said:
Can't wait for the great art and music to come out of this hardship. The best art is always created in times of turmoil and austerity and never in times of comfort and prosperity.
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Tell that to the disabled when the government cuts their allowances. They'll be ever so pleased.
 
Blzebub said:
The fundamental hole in the SNP's argument is that Scotland is not a separate country, but the way they talk, you'd think it is. They are always banging on about how "Scotland didn't vote for this". Neither did the NW and NE of England, nor did London and Wales. It's an empty argument.
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So you think the the regions of England have their own very distinct historical identity with past kings and queens, their own capital cities, virtually their own language, have separate teams in all major sporting events and their own elected parliaments, legal system and education systems. How strange.
 
KC Cantiaci said:
But if Scotland is virtually running its own economy under fiscal autonomy, the electorate will be better placed to make a decision because they'll be able to see if all that the SNP promises is worth the additional taxes likely required to pay for it......oil price depending of course and reachable oil reserves
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I'll go along with this.
 
I was on holiday in Cornwall a few years ago.

Breakfast was a "Full Cornish" so I ordered it to see what it was. Imagine my surprise when I was served up bacon, sausage, egg, mushrooms, beans, toast, pot of tea. :D
 
gassor said:
So you think the the regions of England have their own very distinct historical identity with past kings and queens, their own capital cities, virtually their own language, have separate teams in all major sporting events and their own elected parliaments, legal system and education systems. How strange.
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plus Scotland is an actual country.
 
KC Cantiaci said:
But if Scotland is virtually running its own economy under fiscal autonomy, the electorate will be better placed to make a decision because they'll be able to see if all that the SNP promises is worth the additional taxes likley required to pay for it......oil price depending of course.
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I am a bit confused about what the SNP actually want. During Indyref we were told that Scotland could stand on her own two feet and pay for everything and any suggestion otherwise was Project Fear. But now here's new SNP MP for East Lothian and academic economist, George Kervan in The National:

For Scotland to accept fiscal autonomy without inbuilt UK-wide fiscal balancing would be tantamount to economic suicide. However, all federal systems have mechanisms for cross subsidising regions in economic need by regions in surplus. To deny that to Scotland suggests a disingenuous Mr Cameron is hoping to derail any move to Scottish Hole Rule within the UK.
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http://www.thenational.scot/news/ge...mandate-now-goes-far-beyond-smith-powers.2787

Which seems to be arguing for FFA but keeping Barnett style cross subsidy and risk pooling? And which would seem to indicate Scottish independence would be "econmic suicide"?
 
gassor said:
So you think the the regions of England have their own very distinct historical identity with past kings and queens, their own capital cities, virtually their own language, have separate teams in all major sporting events and their own elected parliaments, legal system and education systems. How strange.
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Does Scotland have Embassies abroad? Sadly, not. In the Middle Ages, there were separate kingdoms in England. That's history.

How about living in the here and now? Moving on from centuries of grievance, and realising how lucky we are that Scotland isn't a separate country, but just a part of the UK? This is current geopolitics, and Scotland is indistinguishable from any other part of the UK.
 
Scotland is a country. the North East of England isn't a country. This is a bit like the race vs ethnic group thing.
 
Wrong.

Is "Scottish" a nationality, greg? No, actually it's not. People who are native to Scotland are British.
 
Blzebub said:
Does Scotland have Embassies abroad? Sadly, not. In the Middle Ages, there were separate kingdoms in England. That's history.

How about living in the here and now? Moving on from centuries of grievance, and realising how lucky we are that Scotland isn't a separate country, but just a part of the UK? This is current geopolitics, and Scotland is indistinguishable from any other part of the UK.
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Apart from Scotland and Wales which other parts of the UK elect their own separate parliaments?

You have a habit of making exaggerated claims for something, not being able to back it up, and just repeating inane points.
 
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