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Speeches in parliament over anti-semitic activities.

Max, a brief look at your recent postings on this thread suggests you need to stop kicking the poster and bat the post instead.

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maxflinn said:
Please don't infest this site with such vile propaganda. The Israelis butchered women and children, and many young men who were hundreds of metres away from the so-called 'border'. None of them had bombs!

Watch the video ''Killing Gaza' and you'll see the absolutely horrific crimes of the terrorist state of Israel laid bare.

Even right-wingers are now ceasing support for this terror state given its barbarity.
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Even the Arab press reported Hamas admitting that most of the “protesters” killed were Hamas militants.
https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/n...fficial-says-50-members-killed-on-gaza-border

And what would have happened if they have taken the border fence down and thousands of Hamas and Civilans had entered Israel?
 
lordsummit said:
Max, a brief look at your recent postings on this thread suggests you need to stop kicking the poster and bat the post instead.

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No problem LS.

I presume you'll be giving Still the same warning seeing as he's been following me around the site for weeks posting nothing but off-topic ad-hominem/ridicule after every post I make?

Thanks.
 
maxflinn said:
No problem LS.

I presume you'll be giving Still the same warning seeing as he's been following me around the site for weeks posting nothing but off-topic ad-hominem/ridicule after every post I make?

Thanks.
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Have you reported any? Has anyone else? I have noticed no evidence of it. I presume Witchfinder also has annoyed you in some way in order to provoke that response? In this case the aup is very clear. You have crossed the line several times in recent postings.
 
maxflinn said:
I presume you'll be giving Still the same warning seeing as he's been following me around the site for weeks posting nothing but off-topic ad-hominem/ridicule after every post I make?
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Clearly you are ignorant of what constitutes ad hom'.
The most effective technique to avoid ridicule continues to be not posting the demonstrably ridiculous.
 
Witchfinder-general said:
Why don't you answer the criticism rather than get defensive.
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I have tried, Witchfinder, a couple of times, but the question comes back unaltered each time, and each time edges closer to Islamophobia. I don't like the term "whataboutery" but in case of your last post it's deserved.

"Israel is slaughtering Gazan protestors."

"Yeah but what about the way Muslims treat their women?"

If you think that the situation of Iranian women is not getting the attention it deserves, and want to show solidarity with them, then there are campaigns you can contribute to, organisations you can join etc. Why not look into it and start a thread?
 
russel said:
Turkey does not hide a nuclear weapons program, yet.

Turkey did not cause a war that had queus at petrol pumps.

Turkey is not trying to cause a war that will lead to oil at hundreds of dollars per barrel and environmental and economic catastrophe.

Turkey does not try and get rid of MPs outside its own country that do not kowtow to its agenda.

Turkey does not leverage fundamentalist Christians in the US to influence US foreign policy.....
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I don't disagree with everything you say, just some of it:
- How do you know what Turkey does and doesn't hide? The hidden stuff is, like, hidden.
- Turkey has provoked plenty of conflict, responded in a disproportionate way in plenty of other instances (Cyprus comes to mind as a fairly recent instance) and poured oil on the fire in others (Syria for ex.) The great expulsion of Greeks in the 20s and 40s and the genocide of the Armenians put the Nakba in some sort of perspective.
- Turkey has just got rid of hundreds of academics, judges, opposition politicians, etc. Not necessarily murdered, just thrown in jail. Erdogan's lot have been lobbying for years to get Fethullah Gülen extradited from the US and to intimidate opposition Turks living in Europe.
- Turkey does not leverage fundamentalist Christians in the US. Over the last half century or so, it has found it gets better results by leveraging its NATO frontline status with Pentagon types in the US (I'll grant you there is some overlap between categories).
 
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lordsummit said:
Max, a brief look at your recent postings on this thread suggests you need to stop kicking the poster and bat the post instead.

<moderating>
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Tony as moderator posted in other thread that I/P posts are not "welcome here". Yet, max uses this thread to raise the I/P subject.
Can moderators make it clear if the I/P issue is allowed here or is it not?

Arye
 
Still said:
Yet the literal and metaphorical lack of mass burnings/duckings suggests no witch hunt.

The fundamental problem is AS in Labour, and the failure to deal with it in a timely and transparent manner.
Deflecting by making those talking/reporting/concerned about it the problem continues to be damaging, and ultimately self defeating, for Labour.
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Well, argued...
 
Thanks. fwiw I am a lefty and generally support current Labour.
My motive is sort to it out asap, and take the stick away from the right.
 
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Seanm said:
I have tried, Witchfinder, a couple of times, but the question comes back unaltered each time, and each time edges closer to Islamophobia. I don't like the term "whataboutery" but in case of your last post it's deserved.

"Israel is slaughtering Gazan protestors."

"Yeah but what about the way Muslims treat their women?"

If you think that the situation of Iranian women is not getting the attention it deserves, and want to show solidarity with them, then there are campaigns you can contribute to, organisations you can join etc. Why not look into it and start a thread?
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You forgot about Assad's slaughter and Turkey's current purges etc, but yes the way some Muslim society's treat women borders on medieval, the same as the way it treats apostates, these are valid and serious criticisms of certain Muslim society's, not a 'phobia'. The point I made was that parts of the left do nothing but focus on Israel when it comes to the middle east, and then wonder why they're being called anti-Semitic. The middle east should be seen as a whole, and that includes western involvement. The thing I find really annoying is western support for the BDS movement, with its holier than thou voices harping on about how such and such band shouldn't play in Israel or how we should boycott Teddy Pardo goods!
 
PsB said:
I don't disagree with everything you say, just some of it:
- How do you know what Turkey does and doesn't hide? The hidden stuff is, like, hidden.
- Turkey has provoked plenty of conflict, responded in a disproportionate way in plenty of other instances (Cyprus comes to mind as a fairly recent instance) and poured oil on the fire in others (Syria for ex.) The great expulsion of Greeks in the 20s and 40s and the genocide of the Armenians put the Nakba in some sort of perspective.
- Turkey has just got rid of hundreds of academics, judges, opposition politicians, etc. Not necessarily murdered, just thrown in jail. Erdogan's lot have been lobbying for years to get Fethullah Gülen extradited from the US and to intimidate opposition Turks living in Europe.
- Turkey does not leverage fundamentalist Christians in the US. Over the last half century or so, it has found it gets better results by leveraging its NATO frontline status with Pentagon types in the US (I'll grant you there is some overlap between categories).
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It's very, very difficult to hide a nuclear weapons programme and Turkey, unlike Israel has signed the NPT treaty.

I don't dispute Turkey is heading for a bad place but when it's criticised you don't get thrown a lot of propoganda by fanatical supporters. As far as BDS goes it worked in SA and SA was hardly the worst place in Africa, were you against sanctions against SA?.
 
russel said:
It's very, very difficult to hide a nuclear weapons programme and Turkey, unlike Israel has signed the NPT treaty.

I don't dispute Turkey is heading for a bad place but when it's criticised you don't get thrown a lot of propoganda by fanatical supporters. As far as BDS goes it worked in SA and SA was hardly the worst place in Africa, were you against sanctions against SA?.
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I'm sure Turkey doesn't have a full blown program, for the reasons you mention. I'm equally convinced there's a low level research program tucked away somewhere, just in case. Turkey's industrial and technical capabilities are well ahead of those of Pakistan or North Korea.

TBH I don't remember having much of a position on SA sanctions, beyond vaguely avoiding Outspan oranges. FWIW, I don't think those sanctions were particularly effective. I'm similarly conflicted over BDS, and would be just as ambivalent over any hypothetical effort to ostracize Turkey.

The Palestinians have been more successful in attracting international attention to their plight than the Kurds. The Kurds don't have much regional support, as Iran and the Arab nations view them with intense suspicion, and their pursuit of independence through violent action has alienated potential sources of support in the West. They're basically an orphan nation, without much of a voice. In contrast, the Palestinian cause has been enthusiastically instrumentalized by most of the assorted kingdoms and dictatorships of the Arab world.

Still, it is a bit of mystery to me why tens of thousands of Kurds* can be killed by the Turkish army over the last few decades and millions more displaced without much "action" (i.e. worthy indignation) from members of the international community. Could it be because Europeans don't lose much sleep about Muslims killing other Muslims? Could this, in turn, be because it is more difficult to attach a post-colonial or anti-imperialistic narrative to those actions? The defence of basic human rights, such as the right to live in your village without getting bombed, shot or summarily executed comes up hard against that other sacred cow, "non-interference in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation", consistently supported by Moscow and Beijing.

(*including an estimated 25/30 thousand civilians killed or executed, and 2400 villages destroyed in the early 90s)
 
PsB said:
Still, it is a bit of mystery to me why tens of thousands of Kurds* can be killed by the Turkish army over the last few decades and millions more displaced without much "action" (i.e. worthy indignation) from members of the international community. Could it be because Europeans don't lose much sleep about Muslims killing other Muslims?
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I think it's simpler than that - Turkey is a NATO member with one of the world's biggest armies. It's better to have them in the tent p*ssing out etc...
 
Regarding Turkey, Erdugan is buffering immigration from Syria to Europe, therefore he can kill hundreds of Kurd, he can bomb them in other country, he can put in Gail journalists, innocent citizens, judges, people of the opposition, he can threat those who want to participate in the elections against him - he can do whatever he wants without even the slightness criticism from Europe.

Arye
 
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