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Speeches in parliament over anti-semitic activities.

BREAKING NEWS: political opponents beat each other with sticks.

The primary problem is AS in Labour, and not those pointing it out, talking about it, spinning it up, etc.
Labour supporters who can't comprehend this are potentially self-defeating.

It's remarkably easy to accuse people of anti-Semitism

It is for those claiming Hitler supported Zionism.
 
Great shame although he was getting on a bit anyway. He argues his point very well - even against Jewish hawks on the Jewish Global TV channel.

It's just a subject that has been taken off the political table. Everywhere. It is remarkably easy to be accused of anti semitism for having a view on current affairs or indeed history that the Board of Deputies take exception to.

Such accusations, regardless of their veracity, dominate the news to such an extent that they have the desired effect of silencing free speech.


It's not Jewish groups, it's the Israel lobby, some of whom claim to represent Jewish interests and not all in the Israel lobby are Jewish, to suggest it's a problem that is exclusively caused by Jews is anti-Semitic .
 
Anyone here concerned about Erdogan's crackdown going on in Turkey at moment? 1000s of non compliant judges sacked, same with lecturers, public sector staff, people locked up for having the wrong views, all done under the banner of being 'terrorist sympathizers'. He was in Bosnia yesterday 'reaching out' to Europes Muslims, making sinister remarks about exiled Turks who criticise the regime. He may be a friend of the UK as well, lucky us. We supply Turkey with weapons to crush the Kurds with.
 
It's not Jewish groups, it's the Israel lobby, some of whom claim to represent Jewish interests and not all in the Israel lobby are Jewish, to suggest it's a problem that is exclusively caused by Jews is anti-Semitic .

It's the Jewish hawks you've got to watch out for. Come to think of it, isn't a merlin a type of hawk? Just sayin' like.
 
Anyone here concerned about Erdogan's crackdown going on in Turkey at moment? 1000s of non compliant judges sacked, same with lecturers, public sector staff, people locked up for having the wrong views, all done under the banner of being 'terrorist sympathizers'. He was in Bosnia yesterday 'reaching out' to Europes Muslims, making sinister remarks about exiled Turks who criticise the regime. He may be a friend of the UK as well, lucky us. We supply Turkey with weapons to crush the Kurds with.

If he's not Jewish, no-one gives a toss.
 
Anyone here concerned about Erdogan's crackdown going on in Turkey at moment? 1000s of non compliant judges sacked, same with lecturers, public sector staff, people locked up for having the wrong views, all done under the banner of being 'terrorist sympathizers'. He was in Bosnia yesterday 'reaching out' to Europes Muslims, making sinister remarks about exiled Turks who criticise the regime. He may be a friend of the UK as well, lucky us. We supply Turkey with weapons to crush the Kurds with.
I was chatting to a Turkish chap the other day and after wandering on to the subject of politics he told me something interesting.

He said he thinks the reason Erdogan is so worried about the Kurds is that if the Yanks ever fancied a regime change (as they often do) in Turkey then they’d likely arm the Kurds and get them to do it by way of an uprising.

So they’re like a sleeping Trojan horse, in his opinion.

I’m not sure about that. But it’s interesting.
 
If he's not Jewish, no-one gives a toss.
There were protests and an early day motion in Parliament:

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/opposition-over-erdogans-state-visit-britain-growing

Bit low key I grant you: there’d probably have been a bit more of a reception had he just murdered a hundred protesters.

There is a history of British and Irish socialist solidarity with the Turkish Kurds, but it is not identical to that with the Palestinians. It’s disingenuous to pretend that leftists just woke up one morning and were presented with a smorgasbord of international iniquity, and said, These guys are the worst! And the best thing is they’re Jewish! All of these things have a history - the history of the conflicts themselves and of their relationship with international solidarity movements.

No doubt British liberals’ weird defensiveness with regard to Israel has its own history too. Personally I’m inclined to chalk it up to a kind of low key Islamophobia (not so low key in some cases).
 
There is a history of British and Irish socialist solidarity with the Turkish Kurds, but it is not identical to that with the Palestinians. It’s disingenuous to pretend that leftists just woke up one morning and were presented with a smorgasbord of international iniquity, and said, These guys are the worst! And the best thing is they’re Jewish! All of these things have a history - the history of the conflicts themselves and of their relationship with international solidarity movements.

It is certainly the case that the leftists pick and choose which international iniquities to get worked up about, and which they choose to ignore/overlook, deliberately or otherwise. For example, there was leftist solidarity with victims of US aggression, but very little (that I was aware of) with victims of Soviet/Russian aggression. Again, solidarity with black South Africans, but not with the black victims of Amin and Mugabe. And Mao, who murdered millions, was actually a folk hero to the left.

So, if it's not about numbers killed or imprisoned, what are the priorities of 'international solidarity movements'? The governing principle seems to be that if the villains are white, from capitalist countries, their crimes are far more reprehensible than if the villains are black, or from (however defined) 'socialist' countries.

As a particularly daft example, here's Seamus Milne on East Germany vs today's Germany:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seumas_Milne

'[East Germany] delivered social and women’s equality well ahead of its times, and greater freedom in the workplace than most employees enjoy in today’s Germany'.
 
Great comment Joe.
I think Israel gets hammered for a few reasons, not least because it is a true democracy.
As such, people expect it to behave like most democracies around the world, and not with such violent responses to surrounding countries, despite some of these countries wish for Israel’s destruction.
Proportional representation is a disaster.
 
It is certainly the case that the leftists pick and choose which international iniquities to get worked up about, and which they choose to ignore/overlook, deliberately or otherwise. For example, there was leftist solidarity with victims of US aggression, but very little (that I was aware of) with victims of Soviet/Russian aggression. Again, solidarity with black South Africans, but not with the black victims of Amin and Mugabe. And Mao, who murdered millions, was actually a folk hero to the left.

So, if it's not about numbers killed or imprisoned, what are the priorities of 'international solidarity movements'? The governing principle seems to be that if the villains are white, from capitalist countries, their crimes are far more reprehensible than if the villains are black, or from (however defined) 'socialist' countries.

As a particularly daft example, here's Seamus Milne on East Germany vs today's Germany:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seumas_Milne

'[East Germany] delivered social and women’s equality well ahead of its times, and greater freedom in the workplace than most employees enjoy in today’s Germany'.
I'm tempted to refer you back to my last post: again, leftists don't start from zero each morning with a checklist, a set of utilitarian criteria and sovereign rational judgement: we're caught up in history just like everyone else. Certain struggles became totemic at a crucial periods in the development of the left (in the case of Palestine largely out of admiration for the agency of the Palestinians themselves rather than anger at Israel) and still have their own momentum.

As for why pick on the poor white people...I think you mentioned in another thread that at school you learned about the bad things about colonialism "as well as the good"...I think you need to go back to the history books. If you are actually interested in the motivations of the left you might actually read some left history too: Soviet aggression in e.g. Hungary was another key factor in the left's development, resulting in rifts that are still shaping the movement today (cue hilarious People's Judean Front gags!) Also the left have been and still are involved in lower profile "non-white" conflicts around the world: indeed the further left you look the more likely you are to find awareness of and involvement in a range of international issues. So your complaint is more about the mainstream prominence of certain struggles rather than the left as such: the left's campaign success stories, if you like. So if you're interested in a particular struggle, you should probably find a local leftist organisation campaigning to raise awareness about it. Alternatively, just carry on using it to score points!
 
Great comment Joe.
I think Israel gets hammered for a few reasons, not least because it is a true democracy.
As such, people expect it to behave like most democracies around the world, and not with such violent responses to surrounding countries, despite some of these countries wish for Israel’s destruction.
Proportional representation is a disaster.
Ah yes, this old chestnut.

Perfectly normal democracy.
 
I'm tempted to refer you back to my last post: again, leftists don't start from zero each morning with a checklist, a set of utilitarian criteria and sovereign rational judgement: we're caught up in history just like everyone else. Certain struggles became totemic at a crucial periods in the development of the left (in the case of Palestine largely out of admiration for the agency of the Palestinians themselves rather than anger at Israel) and still have their own momentum.
That's explained it well, but may'be 'the left' need to get out a bit more? Parts of the left anyway, no doubt there is solidarity with oppressed peoples around the world. But the left does have a myopic obsession with Israel, as can be seen in its support for the BDS movement, and its sometimes absurd requests, like pleading with pop stars such as Radiohead or Nick Cave not to perform there! Also its condemnation of Israeli aggression is much stronger than that of other middle eastern countries. May'be its the internet polarising opinion, there seem's to be almost as many uninformed ranting lefties as there are uninformed ranting right wingers, who are just as bad. They have a stock of 'causes' that they get worked up about, like the Palestinian/Israeli david/goliath narrative, and that's about all some of them know of the middle east.
 
If he's not Jewish, no-one gives a toss.

Turkey does not hide a nuclear weapons program, yet.

Turkey did not cause a war that had queus at petrol pumps.

Turkey is not trying to cause a war that will lead to oil at hundreds of dollars per barrel and environmental and economic catastrophe.

Turkey does not try and get rid of MPs outside its own country that do not kowtow to its agenda.

Turkey does not leverage fundamentalist Christians in the US to influence US foreign policy.....
 
I was chatting to a Turkish chap the other day and after wandering on to the subject of politics he told me something interesting.

He said he thinks the reason Erdogan is so worried about the Kurds is that if the Yanks ever fancied a regime change (as they often do) in Turkey then they’d likely arm the Kurds and get them to do it by way of an uprising.

So they’re like a sleeping Trojan horse, in his opinion.


I’m not sure about that. But it’s interesting.

Quite possible, I'd say. Ethnic Kurds comprise between 15 and 20% of the Turkish population, about 14 million. Then there are significant ethnic Kurdish populations in bordering Iran, Iraq and Syria. They are good fighters and properly armed and united they would be a very significant force.
 
What does it say about the quality of our media when Chief Political Correspondent, Sky News tweets this?
42239616022_f30b037a07_b.jpg
 
What does it say about the quality of our media when Chief Political Correspondent, Sky News tweets this?
42239616022_f30b037a07_b.jpg

He is trying to make light of the fact that he lied about Livingstone online, but that's what I would expect from a Murdoch journalist.

The right-wing slant of Sky is one of the reasons why I would never pay for Sky Sports, despite the fact that I love football.

Jack
 
Ken doesn't need anyone to lie about him, he's enough of a bellend on his own.
 
I was chatting to a Turkish chap the other day and after wandering on to the subject of politics he told me something interesting.

He said he thinks the reason Erdogan is so worried about the Kurds is that if the Yanks ever fancied a regime change (as they often do) in Turkey then they’d likely arm the Kurds and get them to do it by way of an uprising.

So they’re like a sleeping Trojan horse, in his opinion.

I’m not sure about that. But it’s interesting.
Seems to be a good and human reason for Erdugan bombing Kurds in Ofrin, which is outside of the Turkish border. Some people have extremely flexible opinions.

Arye
 


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