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Should Scotland be an independent country?

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  • Total voters
    132
  • Poll closed .
Rockmeister said:
Yes yes very funny. It was Iceland obvs, as in ‘he was so annoying that we all sent him to Iceland’.
Not the supermarket.
Although?
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Reminds me of the time I rang my mother and asked about the family. 'Liz is just off to Iceland'' she replied, and for a moment I thought she meant Iceland the country.
 
Joe said:
I think it is time to post this,,,,,,


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excellent :) . where on earth did you dig this up from? a few years ago i would have said that i concur with the sentiments. but i think/hope we have moved on a tad from the self-effacement into a more positive outlook as evidenced by our open-minded government and policies.
 
some analogy between that battle and the ancient 'sport' of bullfighting crept into my head.
The bull, 100x as powerful, stands bellowing in a corner of the field, with a bull terrier attached to his nose. The staffy knows if he let's go at the wrong time, he's ( or she's in this case) mincemeat, and the bull stupid as he is, knows enough to know the same. If she times it badly, he has her. All he needs to do to win is take the punishment. He has however underestimated the brain and determination of the terrier. NO WAY is she going to let this go until she wins. or, can escape safely.
 
What can Sturgeon actually do, is what crept into my head.

Tories will agree to the request only if it suits tories. They won’t agree out of some notion of a democratic mandate, they are authoritarian to the core.

Labour would probably have agreed but that chance has gone, big picture stuff is not easy once consumed by some crusade.

After saying that, I think the tories should agree. It should be made clear during the campaign that if independence is the winner it happens very quickly. A matter of months. Scotland does not get to use English currency, Scotland pays its portion of the UK debt before leaving and pays for implementing border controls. There should be no deals of any sort with the rest of the UK as a ‘special case’, Scotland can concentrate on joining the EU and be lumped in with whatever deal the UK ends up in with the EU. In the meantime, nothing.

When faced with reality the sensible Scots will vote against independence, same as they did the last time.

By the way, I know what I said there is harsh but the point is I don’t want people to vote for independence so I don’t expect any of that to actually happen.
 
Brian said:
Anyway, hot off the BBC news...

The Sturgeon requests powers for referendum
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50843024

Apparently, when Johnson tells her to wind her neck in it won’t be the end of the matter. lol
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The SNP will be banking on a couple of rounds of the Tories rejecting democracy before the next Scottish Parliament elections to further increase support for independence. If Johnson was sensible he'd be best to say yes to a referendum now - before Brexit really impacts and while support for independence is probably still marginal.
 
SteveG said:
The SNP will be banking on a couple of rounds of the Tories rejecting democracy before the next Scottish Parliament elections to further increase support for independence. If Johnson was sensible he'd be best to say yes to a referendum now - before Brexit really impacts and while support for independence is probably still marginal.
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As I said in my last, the tories will agree only if it suits some purpose of their own. It won’t be because of any respect for Scots or their wishes.
 
I think Sturgeon should bide her time- give it a year for folk to see the true nature of this government and for Brexit negotiations to fall apart due to irreconcilable demands from the hard right in the Tory Party. Hard Brexit and the ensuing chaos would be the clincher and there’s every possibility of it happening.
 
I'm very late but a friend's Mother- in-Law once said to them in a cafe "Oh do you mind swapping seats : I can see Iceland."
Victoria Wood would've had that line in an instant.
 
From page 1 of this thread -

I lived and worked in Scotland for 11 years and the majority of my extended family live there. If I thought that independence would bring benefits other than a (short lived) feeling of well being to the populace I would be in favour.
The likely fall in living standards that would arise due to the difficulties in respect of currency, budget imbalance and so on would last a lot longer than any initial euphoria. An independent Scotland would be unable to qualify for EU membership on grounds of budget deficit alone despite the large majority in favour of remaining. Even wise heads in the SNP acknowledge the difficulty.
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I still hold the same view.

Forgive me for not re - reading all the other 40 pages or so, but the last few posts refer to 'the Tories' denying a referendum. That will be the 'Conservative and Unionist Party' then. Of course consent to a legal referendum is not in the gift of the 'party' but of the 'government', which just happens to be controlled by a substantial majority of unionist MPs .

Good luck winning that one Nicola.

Jim
 
Ah, the Conservative and Unionist Party- that’ll be the same one placing the Loyal subjects of Northern Ireland behind a border with the rest of the U.K against their express wishes. A novel take on unionism if ever there was one.
 
HairyHaggis said:
thanks for your continued interest jim, it is invaluable to us.
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The lowest form of wit. Like all nationalists, you're not much good with opposing views.

TheDecameron said:
Ah, the Conservative and Unionist Party- that’ll be the same one placing the Loyal subjects of Northern Ireland behind a border with the rest of the U.K against their express wishes. A novel take on unionism if ever there was one.
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Has the penny dropped yet? The tories will do only what suits tories. So what is it you think is going to persuade the Tory govt to agree to a referendum?
 
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Caledon1297 said:
https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/publication/2019/12/scotlands-right-choose-putting-scotlands-future-scotlands-hands/documents/scotlands-right-choose-putting-scotlands-future-scotlands-hands/scotlands-right-choose-putting-scotlands-future-scotlands-hands/govscot:document/scotlands-right-choose-putting-scotlands-future-scotlands-hands.pdf
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thanks for posting that. i see on p29, still there, the following:

"This amendment could be made in either an Order in Council under section 30 of the Scotland Act, as was done for the 2014 referendum, or by an Act of the UK Parliament. The section 30 Order passed for the 2014 referendum contained conditions as to its conduct and timing. Any conditions which the governments agreed for the transfer of power over the holding of a referendum could be included in either a Section 30 Order or an Act, as required."

now that we are where we are, following the recent ge, i suspect it is going to be a section 30 of the scotland act provision that gives us the way forward.
 
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