TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Then if you show reluctance, it’s the one hour long monotone hectoring by YouTube influencers tipped into your lap.‘Do your own research, start *here*’ is pure QAnon methodology. You know that, don’t you?
Then if you show reluctance, it’s the one hour long monotone hectoring by YouTube influencers tipped into your lap.‘Do your own research, start *here*’ is pure QAnon methodology. You know that, don’t you?
The article max linked to above made the point that the same could be said of the decision to impeach Trump - largely performative and futile. It's not a knockdown argument but it's an effective rhetorical point, I think.
For the record I believe it was right to impeach Trump because there was both a moral imperative, and it forced Republicans to go on record as either supporting fascism or opposing it. You could say the same about the Medicare vote - it would have forced the issue and made politicians from both parties come out and say what they really believed. Both issues are matters of life and death.
I don't see how this would have blown the left Democrats' political leverage but your point raises the general question of whether any concessions were extracted from the mainstream Democrats, in return for supporting Pelosi. When is the right time to use political leverage, and for what?
Agree with this, of course, and I have no time for Dore.PS Also remember that Dore's answer is, and always has been, a third party and we all know how that would end. Personally I wold be much happier if if was Trump and the right with the third party not the justice democrats and the left.
Give Matthew a break.
Agree with this, of course, and I have no time for Dore.
Still, I'm not sure your other post addresses my earlier point: what difference is there in principle between a vote on Medicare for all and the vote to impeach? Both have great moral force, ad should be supported on principle, even if they are doomed to fail. I don't think AOC's tweet answers the question either - did left Democrats win concessions on committee seats and mimimum wage?
Who's Vausch?
Not jumbled at all. Very lucid and quite persuasive. I think I'm persuaded, anyway. Respect for following the US political scene so closely - I just don't have the energy for it.Yes I agree impeachment and MFA are similar in many respects, but they do differ from a practical political point of view.
Firstly, the impeachment was a formal censure of a deliberate act of insurrection that, I would argue, demands a response. A MFA vote is more about a challenge to the status quo and has no clear purpose beyond the performative. Like I say, listen to the people arguing for Force the Vote and their argument was that endlessly repeated failed votes for speaker would throw a big spotlight and public debate on MFA which in turn would cause a popular uprising and force the democrats hand.
Again, remember there was never any suggestion that Pelosi would not be elected speaker only that this FTV strategy would disrupt congress and this would somehow lead to support and awareness on MFA though some form of public debate in politics and the media. The promise of exposing the politicians propping up the current healthcare system seems like thin gruel especially as, per AOC, you can already see this from the cosponsor lists.
This despite the fact that we had such a debate around the democratic primaries and mostly what we found is that there isn't yet a popular mandate for MFA, albeit mostly from a position of fear about losing insurance. It's just not clear that this strategy would lead us anywhere and given the opportunity cost of not being able to advance Biden's agenda (COVID relief, minimum wage, climate change, etc) nobody outside of the one branch of the social media based left saw it as worthwhile.
There was also a similar issue of opportunity cost with impeachment of course, but that is exactly why everyone agreed to get it all over with as quickly as possible without weeks of testimony and investigation.
The difference was that the people arguing it was important to impeach, even if it was pointless, (of whom there are many) won that argument whereas the people arguing it was important to have a MFA vote, even if it was pointless, (of whom there are few) lost that argument.
It is a good question, what did AOC, the squad and Bernie gain from their leverage. And the answer is not much although really, I think, this mostly just reinforces the point about how little leverage the progressive caucus had back when this was all being argued about nearly two months ago.
Matthew
PS Vaush is one of the political voices in the new social media based space where all this discussion is happening (TYT, Destiny, Kyle, BTC, Pakman, Dore, the Bread Tubers, etc.) He's an avowed socialist and anti-fascist and quite radical but one of those who manages to annoy both sides (the right view him as a communist revolutionary, the left view him as complicit, centrists view him as flawed for a number of reasons). He basically tryies to reach the young and impressionable in communities like Reddit that otherwise would be drowned in an alt-right soup.
Quite how important all this is is hugely debatable and it does seem very inward looking bubble like. Although it is disruptive of traditional medias does reach people demographics who otherwise would have nothing to do with politics.
PPS Sorry that's all very jumbled. I am very tired.
Perhaps you should spare a thought for those less fortunate than you, but then I guess that's not the American way!
I wonder if the US establishment worked for the people, not the banks, corporations etc and provided free healthcare to all the people, and proper financial support to the hundreds of millions affected by Covid 19, as all other Western countries do would there be so many dissafected US citizens...
I guess we won't find out under Biden/Harris, as both establishment figures are, predictably, against free healthcare, and against financially supporting people during Covid.
They say nice things though, which seems to be enough for one half of America..
Drood, the vast majority of Democrats in the house were blindly behind Pelosi. There was very little chance they'd vote anyone else as speaker. So the Squad just needed to withhold the sufficient number of their votes until she relented and granted a floor vote on Medicare for all in return for their support, which she would have had to do, because she's drunk on power, it just may have took some time and some backbone.
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They had a chance. They did not fight. They renaged on their stated promises to do so.
No...poison them!Lock 'em up!
Why are you railing against the Dems, when clearly it's the Repubs who want to sustain their corporate friends, and leave the poor and downtrodden to suffer?
Both parties want to sustain their corporate friends, and leave the poor and downtrodden to suffer. The Democrats are not quite as bad in terms of leaving the downtrodden suffer, but they're still servants of the elites, not their voter base. Why should they not be criticised just like the Republicans?Why are you railing against the Dems, when clearly it's the Repubs who want to sustain their corporate friends, and leave the poor and downtrodden to suffer?
I also recall just $600.In the last year of the last Repub presidency, with a Repub majority in the Senate, how much financial support went out to those affected by Covid? I recall a single payment of $600. What do you recall?
I seen no such signs.Did you see any sign that the outgoing administration offered any meaningful transitional help as the new administration came in? If so, what form did this take?
I spot a pattern of behaviour.To recap: MF vanished entirely from view after supporting Trump over Clinton at the last US election via the medium of fly-tipping RT videos and regurgitating Trump rally chants. He briefly returned to shovel a load more RT pro-Putin/Assad propaganda, even defending the barrel bombing of Aleppo etc, but refused to engage at all on Trump who turned out to be exactly what we had argued all along. Now Trump is gone he’s back to bash the Democrats again. One doesn’t need to be Adam Curtis to spot a pattern here...
The Democrats are not quite as bad ... Why should they not be criticised just like the Republicans?
I also recall just $600.
I seen no such signs.