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Post-Trump: Biden President Elect II (Trump tantrums, riots etc)

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Sue Pertwee-Tyr, Jan 6, 2021.

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  1. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    In a way, it is about religion - but the religion of the 17th century, when Rome desired to bring Protestant England back to the Catholic fold. According to the Protestant version, Willem of Orange Nassau, Stadtholder of the Netherlands, later William III of England, "King Billy" to his Ulster Protestant fans, was the one who replaced the Catholic James II on the English throne and defeated James's Catholic armies in Ireland, most famously at the Battle of the Boyne on 1 July 1690 (the change from Julian to Gregorian calendar moved it to the Twelfth, still celebrated by Ulster Protestants), thus saving the Protestant cause. Well, that's the simple version. The fact of the matter is that William set sail for Ireland with the tacit blessing of, horror of Protestant horrors, the Pope. The bigger picture was that they had a common enemy, Louis XIV of France (l'État, c'est moi) and his machinations. James II in Ireland was acting as an agent of Louis, with whom he had taken refuge after having been deposed (William, his son-in-law, had facilitated his escape). In addition, the Pope thought that James's attempts to drag England forcibly back to Catholicism were "premature and ill-advised".

    However, the bigger geopolitical picture is lost on your average Orangeman, and s/he adheres to the traditional adversarial picture of the Catholics. And this is where the tribal element comes in. In addition to having the "right" religion. the Protestant/Loyalist tribe regard themselves as superior, hard-working, clean, thrifty, the other lot as "throughother". There was no point in giving Cathlicks good housing, my bitterly Protestant grandmother would say, they'd only keep pigs in the parlour and coal in the bathtub. It doesn't help that the State and Catholic school systems are entirely separate (at the insistence of the Catholic Church, I might add).

    In a scenario that Yank would recognise from the USA and the rise of Trump, this Protestant tribe, long in the ascendancy and used to having its hands firmly on the controls, is seeing this starting to slip, and is Not Happy. In the past, it had tools similar to those of the USA to keep things its way (gerrymandering of electoral boundaries, most notoriously in Derry, multiple votes for Protestant business owners), but most of these have been taken away from it. And things change, even in Northern Ireland - the "Ulster Sunday", when nothing except church services happened, is a thing of the past. The hardliners of the DUP are like Canute, trying to stop the tide. However, I don't expect them to recognise this any time soon.
    Sean K, Durmbo and PsB like this.
  2. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    That trump is not in prison is the most criminal thing I can think of.... other than the prospect that he may well be allowed to stand again!

    He is guilty of incitement to murder, incitement of riot, insurgency, bribery, corruption, embezzlement, extortion, hate crimes and no doubt loads more and yet walks free... Meanwhile some poor black guy in Alabama will be receiving a sentence of 20 years for stealing a bottle of whisky under some "3 strikes" scheme!
    andrewd, wow&flutter, mik_rik and 4 others like this.
  3. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    I do wish Cy Vance et al would get on with it, but if it takes time to gather enough evidence to thoroughly bury him, I can be patient. Just don't want another disappointment like the Muller Report.
    mik_rik, JonR, Durmbo and 3 others like this.
  4. -alan-

    -alan- pfm Member

    Love Throughother. An absolutely wonderful word :)

    Think I might have flagged this before, but on the above sentiment, it's still not uncommon for Catholics and Protestants alike to refer to something as being "A bit more Protestant looking" once everything was in place/completed/tidied* up. Not without a good measure of irony and humour it has to be said.

    *Or indeed - properly rid/red up in local parlance..
  5. tones

    tones Tones deaf


    A frequent saying of the abovementioned grandmother

    Indeed! Stikkinout, so it is!
    -alan- likes this.
  6. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

  7. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    It is pointless linking to something that requires a subscription.

    So far as Trump goes, I asked a friend state-side what he was up to as in the UK things have gone so very quiet.
    He is still very much living the same life, minus White House accomodation. When I asked a couple of weeks back, he had just had a large rally/fund-raising event (in Florida?), still trying to perpetuate the cheat myth, and still with many beleivers and followers.

    People very much forget or do not understand the US consitutional first amendment - the absolute right to say pretty much anything, and something has to be totally outrageous and indisputable (in Court) in meaning, to fall outside that right.

    First Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

    Politics, I would argue, is also just slightly more entrenched partisan than in the UK too.
  8. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

  9. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

    Vinny, no subscription needed.

    sean99, agree - all Boris needs is a UK version of Fox News to solidify his hold on power.
  10. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr, ErikL and Kirk like this.
  11. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK I had amnesia once or twice...

    Had they drawn a cock 'n' balls in the book, I wouldn't have been surprised.
  12. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    I thought this was interesting - the nature of the Capitol stormers and their motives:

    It means that the US is in more trouble than it thinks.
    Yank likes this.
  13. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

    So the Republicans get rid of Liz for defending the legitimacy of the presidential election and then...House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy insists they’d all moved on:

    “I don’t think anybody is questioning the legitimacy of the presidential election,” McCarthy said outside the White House after he and other congressional leaders met with President Joe Biden. “I think that is all over with. We’re sitting here with the president today.”

    All on the same day.
    TheDecameron likes this.
  14. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Right there in real time- how civilisations destroy themselves from within. You don’t need to wait till the Russians or the Chinese are at the gates.
    Snufkin and Kirk like this.
  15. tones

    tones Tones deaf

  16. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

  17. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    But he's not wrong. Most of Trump's base and the January 6th mob have limited critical thinking skills, whether by nature or nurture, and are being cynically manipulated by right wing politicians who are fully aware of their own actions. All right wing politicians who have incited the mob should be in the dock before any of those who took part in the riot itself.
    wacko, Hook, Yank and 1 other person like this.
  18. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK I had amnesia once or twice...

    But brain damaged? Really?
  19. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    Ultimately Biden's vetoing of the UN ceasefire call shows that you couldn't slide a fag paper between GOP and Democrats in many important areas....

    is the 2nd amendment now to be repealed? Or the KKK arrested as a terrorist organisation? Thought not...
  20. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    On middle east foreign policy you may be correct, but on gun control, healthcare, voting rights, womens' rights the democrats are blocked by the GOP in the senate. It's not that there is no policy difference, but without a supermajority in the Senate the democrats cannot advance key legislation.
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