My New Car (warning more Porsche content)

[PhilofCas]

I’m all for electric, I really am, feels like one would suit me perfectly, I have my eye on the ID.2 when out next, but…...RAC man yesterday painted quite a bleak picture, he says EV breakdowns are common, he says a dealer he takes them to in Leeds has 15 awaiting full new batteries, he said he wouldn’t get one on his experience, he said his choice would be petrol hybrid.

 

[clivem2]

Sorry, my English isn’t up to the task. What do you mean?

Does it help if I say that Pork = Porsche?

 

[Bas V]

I’m all for electric, I really am, feels like one would suit me perfectly, I have my eye on the ID.2 when out next, but…...RAC man yesterday painted quite a bleak picture, he says EV break downs are common, he says a dealer he takes them to in Leeds has 15 awaiting full new batteries, he said he wouldn’t get one on his experience, he said his choice would be petrol hybrid.

My guess is that with PHEV you have 2 chances of 1 breaking down… I know a lot of Tesla drivers and not one that has had serious problems

 

[Bas V]

Does it help if I say that Pork = Porsche?

A bit. I still don’t get the point

 

[vam777]

What's the space like at the back? Also boot space? Looking for a macan turbo in the next year or so. What options would you recommend? Any known gremlins? Thanks

 

[clivem2]

A bit. I still don’t get the point

The cost of buying a car is significantly driven by depreciation. Porsches don’t depreciate as much as other cars. EVs currently depreciate heavily. The list price of a Macan is high but the cost to finance one may be less than a cheaper EV that depreciates at a much higher rate.

 

[Aethelist]

We've had a Tesla M3 for the past couple of years and it's been an absolute joy in every respect. No "servicing" required every 12 months (what an absolute con that is on an EV from other marques) and it's been absolutely faultless.

It's a company lease and the wife is due to retire in a couple of months so we're considering what to do next. The only issue stopping us from asking for a quote to buy it is the cost of insurance. Absolutely bloody ridiculous money.

Certainly couldn't go back to a high revving noisy petrol powered car now though. That silent torque is quite addictive.

 

[Bas V]

The cost of buying a car is significantly driven by depreciation. Porsches don’t depreciate as much as other cars. EVs currently depreciate heavily. The list price of a Macan is high but the cost to finance one may be less than a cheaper EV that depreciates at a much higher rate.

Isn’t that only the case with the classic models? Macan, Cayennes and the likes depreciate pretty hard over here.

 

[Bas V]

The only issue stopping us from asking for a quote to buy it is the cost of insurance. Absolutely bloody ridiculous money.

For real? I have been looking for an M3 and the insurance would cost me about the same as my present car (about EUR 50 a month).

 

[clivem2]

For real? I have been looking for an M3 and the insurance would cost me about the same as my present car (about EUR 50 a month).

Clearly the markets can’t be compared….whether it’s insurance or depreciation.

BTW the issue with Tesla insurance is the cost to repair them.

 

[artoly]

On the topic of buying used cars at large depreciated prices, as touched on here, I don't think Porsche are in that category in NZ, as they hold their value a little too well for the likes of me.....which is why I bought a 10 year old, low km Alfa, at just over 1/10th of the new price . That's awesome value compared to what it was new, even after adding an old-Euro + Alfa-factor top-up to the annual maintenance budget.

Since many posts have been brave enough to be a bit off-topic about switching to EV (and to push that a little further off-topic), their is a lot of encouragement to convert, but should this encouragement be to everybody, or just to those who can practically do so when buying new? To put it another way, is it sustainable to recycle + landfill every good condition ICE car out their in order to get to EV faster? (For some perspective, I read that their are circa 1.2 billion ICE cars in circulation). On the other hand, is it more environmental for them to see out a reasonable proportion of their life before being dumped? I don't profess to know the answer, but anticipate firm opinions here about it.

 

[stevec67]

On the topic of buying used cars at large depreciated prices, as touched on here, I don't think Porsche are in that category in NZ, as they hold their value a little too well for the likes of me.....which is why I bought a 10 year old, low km Alfa, at just over 1/10th of the new price . That's awesome value compared to what it was new, even after adding an old-Euro + Alfa-factor top-up to the annual maintenance budget.

Since many posts have been brave enough to be a bit off-topic about switching to EV (and to push that a little further off-topic), their is a lot of encouragement to convert, but should this encouragement be to everybody, or just to those who can practically do so when buying new? To put it another way, is it sustainable to recycle + landfill every good condition ICE car out their in order to get to EV faster? (For some perspective, I read that their are circa 1.2 billion ICE cars in circulation). On the other hand, is it more environmental for them to see out a reasonable proportion of their life before being dumped? I don't profess to know the answer, but anticipate firm opinions here about it.

The general view is that half a car's emissions are when it is manfactured. On that basis the best solution for the planet is to use up the existing car fleet so that in the years time half of the cars currently in existence have gone to the breaker, most after another 5 years and pretty well all by 2044. The rump aren't worth worrying about, how many cars over 20 years old do you see?

 

[Bas V]

The general view is that half a car's emissions are when it is manfactured. On that basis the best solution for the planet is to use up the existing car fleet so that in the years time half of the cars currently in existence have gone to the breaker, most after another 5 years and pretty well all by 2044. The rump aren't worth worrying about, how many cars over 20 years old do you see?

That’s not true. The break even point for a new petrol vs EV is two years. So after two years a petrol keeps polluting, an EV only minimal. When buying new and you care about emission, there’s only one choice.

If you care about climate the single most impact you can make is ditch your petrol SUV. That has more impact than stop eating meat or stop making transatlantic flights…

Source: https://www.nottheendoftheworld.co.uk/

 

[Seeker_UK]

That’s not true. The break even point for a new petrol vs EV is two years. So after two years a petrol keeps polluting, an EV only minimal. When buying new and you care about emission, there’s only one choice.

If you care about climate the single most impact you can make is ditch your petrol SUV. That has more impact than stop eating meat or stop making transatlantic flights…

Source: https://www.nottheendoftheworld.co.uk/

I've offset my ICE use with the fact I haven't inflicted a massive carbon footprint through reproducing, thanks.

 

[stevec67]

That’s not true. The break even point for a new petrol vs EV is two years. So after two years a petrol keeps polluting, an EV only minimal. When buying new and you care about emission, there’s only one choice.

If you care about climate the single most impact you can make is ditch your petrol SUV. That has more impact than stop eating meat or stop making transatlantic flights…

Source: https://www.nottheendoftheworld.co.uk/

Hmm. A reference figure taken from a webpage promoting a book. Forgive me if I'm sceptical about its accuracy. My 50% figure came from petrol powered car statistics as measured 5 years ago or so. Or 50k miles was another figure I heard. That would mean 25k miles a year for a 2 year payback. I don't do that, do you? I sometimes get to 20k depending on work, but my average is 15k miles. I'll dig out a source, we can critique it.
I'm also sceptical about the car outweigh a long haul flight. What are the numbers?

Edit- I just checked the 50% figure, I have it. If you want a link, I'll have to go to another machine. Want the numbers and source?

 

[artoly]

The break even point for a new petrol vs EV is two years.

Wouldn't that be nice. I just looked up a random example to roughly compare two similar cars.
Their are very good reasons to buy EVs, but from what I can see, at least for most of us, they would be for reasons other than saving money.

Hyundai Kona EV costs about $35,000 NZD more than a Hyundai Kona ICE (Let's say $30,000 to allow for a better ICE version).
On road fuel cost for the ICE version for 14,000km (about average here apparently) is $2860 NZD.
This equates to 10.5 years worth of petrol alone for the average user, without any account of the cost of electricity on the EV. (Feel free to alter to suit a higher mileage or if you have a heavy foot).
Adding electricity, the cost of financing the $30K difference (which is significant at the moment), less a bit for lower maintenance costs on an EV, and that payback period would escalate considerably.

Please don't misunderstand me, buying EV's is generally very commendable ...... for other reasons.

 

[wacko]

Tesla M3 ?? Bloody cheek

 

[Bas V]

Hmm. A reference figure taken from a webpage promoting a book. Forgive me if I'm sceptical about its accuracy.

that’s better than no reference, isn’t it? Did you take a look at the web page? Hannah Ritchie is a researcher at Oxford, not some nitwit. But for sure you know better…

 

[Bas V]

Wouldn't that be nice. I just looked up a random example to roughly compare two similar cars.
Their are very good reasons to buy EVs, but from what I can see, at least for most of us, they would be for reasons other than saving money.

Hyundai Kona EV costs about $35,000 NZD more than a Hyundai Kona ICE (Let's say $30,000 to allow for a better ICE version).
On road fuel cost for the ICE version for 14,000km (about average here apparently) is $2860 NZD.
This equates to 10.5 years worth of petrol alone for the average user, without any account of the cost of electricity on the EV. (Feel free to alter to suit a higher mileage or if you have a heavy foot).
Adding electricity, the cost of financing the $30K difference (which is significant at the moment), less a bit for lower maintenance costs on an EV, and that payback period would escalate considerably.

Please don't misunderstand me, buying EV's is generally very commendable ...... for other reasons.

The post was about emissions, not cost.

 

[stevec67]

that’s better than no reference, isn’t it? Did you take a look at the web page? Hannah Ritchie is a researcher at Oxford, not some nitwit. But for sure you know better…

Yes, I have, thanks. Read my post, I said "The general view", not a reference. I've offered numbers, you want them? All you need to do is ask. But I get the impression that you aren't interested in reading a different take.