artoly
pfm Member
Understood. Thank you for clarifying for me.
My New Car (warning more Porsche content)
- Thread starter gintonic
- Start date
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
lets get this thread back.on track - some accessories
20240601_124238 by uh_simon, on Flickr
20240602_084730 by uh_simon, on Flickr
20240601_124238 by uh_simon, on Flickr20240602_084730 by uh_simon, on FlickrHere are some numbers and sources:
Car pollution facts: from production to disposal, what impact do our cars have on the planet? | Auto Express
How much pollution does your car produce in its lifetime and how can you reduce it? Keep reading to find out
www.autoexpress.co.uk
Building the average electric car produces 8.8 tonnes of CO2, 43 per cent of which can be attributed to the construction of the battery. "
And:
Average CO2 Emissions per Car in the UK
Latest statistics on the average CO2 emissions per car in the UK, including figures for per year emissions.
So if the average motorist does 10k miles pa we have 2110kg CO2 per car pa. Seems reasonable. Call it 2 tonnes?
So that means it takes 26,000 miles for petrol car to produce as much CO2 from running about as was needed to manufacture it. 2.6 years, approx. Out from my other figure by a factor of 2. Not a million miles.
The difference in CO2 between manufacturing an EV and IC is 3.2 tonnes. Your figure says that an EV recovers this 3.2 tonnes in 2 years. That would be a good trick, bearing in mind that petrol cars produce 2 tonnes of CO2 pa. Electricity is not generated for free in terms of CO2, at present at least.
So sorry, but whatever the benefits of EVs are , and they are many, and they are part of the solution, I don't believe that an EV recovers the CO2 against an IC car in 2 years. If you do, please show some arithmetic.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Here are some numbers and sources:
"Around 5.6 tonnes of CO2 are released during a petrol or diesel car’s manufacture on average, around three quarters of which are released during production of the steel body in white.Car pollution facts: from production to disposal, what impact do our cars have on the planet? | Auto Express
How much pollution does your car produce in its lifetime and how can you reduce it? Keep reading to find out
Building the average electric car produces 8.8 tonnes of CO2, 43 per cent of which can be attributed to the construction of the battery. "
And:
"In the UK, average CO2 emissions per car are 132.0 grams per km (or 211.2 grams per mile), according to latest 2023 data from the Department for Transport. "Average CO2 Emissions per Car in the UK
Latest statistics on the average CO2 emissions per car in the UK, including figures for per year emissions.www.nimblefins.co.uk
So if the average motorist does 10k miles pa we have 2110kg CO2 per car pa. Seems reasonable. Call it 2 tonnes?
So that means it takes 26,000 miles for petrol car to produce as much CO2 from running about as was needed to manufacture it. 2.6 years, approx. Out from my other figure by a factor of 2. Not a million miles.
The difference in CO2 between manufacturing an EV and IC is 3.2 tonnes. Your figure says that an EV recovers this 3.2 tonnes in 2 years. That would be a good trick, bearing in mind that petrol cars produce 2 tonnes of CO2 pa. Electricity is not generated for free in terms of CO2, at present at least.
So sorry, but whatever the benefits of EVs are , and they are many, and they are part of the solution, I don't believe that an EV recovers the CO2 against an IC car in 2 years. If you do, please show some arithmetic.
Difficult to tell the make up UK of Electricity generation - it isn't defined how "imports" are generated - but between 52 - 63% electricity generated doesn't emit CO2 as a result of burning carbon-based fuel.
So yeah, looking at 3+ years for the EV to catch up.
Sounds about right. If you read around a bit it becomes difficult to quantify with any accuracy. Everything has a cost to manufacture. Oil itself is bloody awful, depending upon where it comes from. A few years back when prices were really high it was worthwhile to get it from shale deposits in places like Canada, but it was an environmantal disaster. Very low yield and something stupid like 5 litres of oil used to mine every litre of finished oil and get it to a consumer. Bad times. Less so now. Likewise electricity has a cost depending upon whence it comes, as you say. It's tempting to imagine that electricity is all generated for free from solar panels grown on waste land and fertilised with sewage sludge, but that would be imagined indeed.Difficult to tell the make up UK of Electricity generation - it isn't defined how "imports" are generated - but between 52 - 63% electricity generated doesn't emit CO2 as a result of burning carbon-based fuel.
So yeah, looking at 3+ years for the EV to catch up.
Alex S
carbon based lifeform
I see one every day.
lets get this thread back.on track - some accessories
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
canonman
pfm Member
So that's where Sparky went
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
that's Milly, the cat from next door
blossomchris
I feel better than James Brown
Brown Bottle
UTB
Photo looks like asbestos but if it’s not damaged it’s okay. I’m sure GT will be aware.
Cheers BB
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
it is and it is intact. I did have two sheets split a while, replaced by licenced operators.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
We have E-Types, old Astons and some kind of 1930s thing that looks like it runs on steam in our street.
Saw one of these nice old bimmers in Lee Green yesterday.
Bas V
pfm Member
So there’s a researcher from Oxford who has done the arithmetic just yet. Just yet, because there’s lots of false/incomplete information about this topic, so she’s done it all again. You just look for an article on the internet, do your own math and think you know better. Why, are you an expert? I’m certainly not, so I turn to independent university experts. Each his own!
So there's a politician, Rishi, he's a really successful businessman, and he's a financial expert. He says lots of things about the economy. He says it several times. But these calculations are complex, so I don't accept them without question. I'm not an expert, but I treat these things with scepticism and apply my own reason checks. Maybe you accept things without question. Each to his own!
Exactly.
Didn’t you do engineering at Imperial? Guessing you know a bit about maths & stuff?
Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
We have E-Types, old Astons and some kind of 1930s thing that looks like it runs on steam in our street.
Saw one of these nice old bimmers in Lee Green yesterday.
Wouldn't that be an Emmer?
Biochem at IC, so close enough, and no stranger to a bit of maths. Very familiar with confidence intervals around data and sensitivity analyses, both then and now in the world of food manufacturing. I absolutely accept that EVs are part of the solution, but I don't trust any calculations without taking a very careful look at the starting conditions and assumptions.
There was a docu on BBC4 this week talking about weather modelling, it talked about the way that the 87 storm was missed because they made certain assumptions and decided that it was most likely to turn right and hit France. As we now know, it turned left, against the odds, and hit London. These days, with better computation, they would have hedged their bets and said "it's probably going to France, but maybe..." Coulda, woulda , shoulda, but that's the sliding doors nature of probability.