How would you vote in a General Election?

[Mullardman]

Huh? You don’t grasp simple math? I’m delighted Labour took the seat, but their vote share is 17% down and the political right would have battered them if it wasn’t split between Farage’s new ego-trip non-party and the Tories. I wouldn’t be feeling at all smug here, this is still very obviously a Labour Party in decline. The only growth in this seat was BP and the Lib Dems, Labour and Tory both moved very substantially backwards. In a GE you should be able to figure out what that will mean...

It was a 'By-Election'.

The UK 'votership' have a history of protest voting in By Elections but when the chips are down...

In any GE soon, Labour would get the major share of the vote. If necessary, they would go into coalition with the nearest pollitical whores. ( Lib Dem) and political virgins ( Green.) That ought to see off the Tories and the Faragistas

Word on the street is that people are finally waking up to the Brexit Diversion and looking to get a decent Govt. .

That would be nice...

 

[Cav]

Huh? You don’t grasp simple math? I’m delighted Labour took the seat, but their vote share is 17% down and the political right would have battered them if it wasn’t split between Farage’s new ego-trip non-party and the Tories. I wouldn’t be feeling at all smug here, this is still very obviously a Labour Party in decline. The only growth in this seat was BP and the Lib Dems, Labour and Tory both moved very substantially backwards. In a GE you should be able to figure out what that will mean...

Speculation about what "might have happened if..." is worthless as an indicator of Labour's decline because you have no idea or evidence as to what the outcome would have been if the right had not been divided. You cannot know that all the votes wiuld have gone to Brexit or Tory so simplistic arithmetic means nothing.

This just another example of your antipathy towards Corbyn and Labour.

 

[Tony L]

The UK 'votership' have a history of protest voting in By Elections but when the chips are down...

Indeed, a long history of battering the sitting government and empowering the main opposition party! Errr, oops!

This just another example of your antipathy towards Corbyn and Labour.

Yes, I think Corbyn is a slimy duplicitous prick obviously in the pocket of dinosaurs such as McCluskey etc rather than either the party membership or wider electorate and the modern Labour Party is a national embarrassment due to his unwillingness to deal with racism, but I can do basic math and understand statistics too. I grasp *exactly* what -17% means!

 

[wacko]

It was a 'By-Election'.
The UK 'votership' have a history of protest voting in By Elections but when the chips are down...
In any GE soon, Labour would get the major share of the vote. If necessary, they would go into coalition with the nearest pollitical whores. ( Lib Dem) and political virgins ( Green.) That ought to see off the Tories and the Faragistas
Word on the street is that people are finally waking up to the Brexit Diversion and looking to get a decent Govt. .
That would be nice...

That's why "Deliver TWOTP. Get it done at any cost. 31 October is last chance saloon. F business, F jobs, F the country JFDI."

 

[Seanm]

Indeed, a long history of battering the sitting government and empowering the main opposition party! Errr, oops!

It's almost like there's some unprecedented situation that is redefining what "opposition to the government" means for many people.

Yes, I think Corbyn is a slimy duplicitous prick obviously in the pocket of dinosaurs such as McCluskey etc rather than either the party membership or wider electorate and the modern Labour Party is a national embarrassment due to his unwillingness to deal with racism, but I can do basic math and understand statistics too. I grasp *exactly* what -17% means!

Good job fending off Cav's accusation that you have a visceral, irrational hatred of Labour!

Trading in personal abuse and Daily Mail tropes is one thing but the casual use of antisemitism every time people feel like letting off steam about Corbyn ought to be beyond the pale, IMO.

 

[htm_1968]

My local MP is Luciana Berger who is an excellent MP. She was, in my opinion, treated shamefully by my local Labour constituency, and effectively hounded out of the party. I expect I shall vote for her in any election as I cannot see myself voting for a Corbyn led Labour.

 

[kendo]

Speculation about what "might have happened if..." is worthless as an indicator of Labour's decline because you have no idea or evidence as to what the outcome would have been if the right had not been divided. You cannot know that all the votes wiuld have gone to Brexit or Tory so simplistic arithmetic means nothing.

This just another example of your antipathy towards Corbyn and Labour.

9% and in 5th place at the EU election in Scotland suggests the Labour party may have a major problem, Cav. That is a really shocking result for the once dominant party up here.

 

[ks.234]

Slimy duplicitous prick obviously in the pocket of Elton posh boys, but looks good in his suit costing a months wages.

 

[Tony L]

Trading in personal abuse and Daily Mail tropes is one thing but the casual use of antisemitism every time people feel like letting off steam about Corbyn ought to be beyond the pale, IMO.

Anti-Semitism is unquestionably still a leading news story after three years of Corbyn leadership. His total lack of leadership skills and all-round ineptitude has effectively destroyed the credibility of a party which all my life I felt was a anti-racist force for good. I’ll stop short of actually describing him as a racist, as I suspect he isn’t. He is however a blustering old fool miles out of his intellectual depth and skillset.

Slimy duplicitous prick obviously in the pocket of Elton posh boys, but looks good in his suit costing a months wages.

Clegg’s blunder three general elections ago is a mere triviality compared to Corbyn’s current utter betrayal of the overwhelmingly pro-EU young/student vote. He has sold out their future with his limp capitulation to Tory/UKIP Brexit. They put their trust in him and still he cowers on the bloody fence paralysed and unable to face down the Hoeys, Manns and McCluskeys of 1970s Labour. A spectacularly weak and ineffectual man.

PS Actually he’s worse than that, the moronic prick wanted A50 bashed through immediately without any plan or strategy! He can act immediately on that, but not on blindingly obvious examples of racism or sexism towards his MPs or within his party...

 

[ks.234]

Anti-Semitism is unquestionably still a leading news story after three years of Corbyn leadership. His total lack of leadership skills and all-round ineptitude has effectively destroyed the credibility of a party which all my life I felt was a anti-racist force for good. I’ll stop short of actually describing him as a racist, as I suspect he isn’t. He is just a blustering old fool miles out of his intellectual depth and skillset.



Clegg’s blunder three general elections ago is a mere triviality compared to Corbyn’s current utter betrayal of the overwhelmingly pro-EU young/student vote. He has sold out their future with his limp capitulation to Tory/UKIP Brexit. They put their trust in him and still he cowers on the bloody fence paralysed and unable to face down the Hoeys, Manns and McCluskeys of 1970s Labour. A spectacularly weak and ineffectual man.

Antisemitism isn’t confined to Corbyn, it didn’t start with Corbyn and it isn’t restricted to Corbyn’s Labour Party.

Clegg’s blunder is trivial? Actually empowering the two things you rail against the most; Austerity and Brexit, is trivial?Interesting that you can heap all sorts of opprobrium on Corbyn for Brexit, but are quite relaxed about the man that was sat at the table, supposedly on equally terms with Cameron, while it was enabled. And then sat there again while Austerity was planned.

 

[Tony L]

Actually empowering the two things you rail against the most; Austerity and Brexit is trivial?Interesting that you can heap all sorts of opprobrium on Corbyn for Brexit, but are quite relaxed about the man that was sat at the table, supposedly on equally terms with Cameron, while it was enabled. And then sat there again while Austerity was planned.

Articulating arguments as Her Majesty’s Opposition and being a very junior coalition partner are two very, very different things! Even so as I understand it the LDs reined the Tories austerity project back to pretty much that proposed by Gordon Brown & Alistair Darling, plus forced the Tories to apply tax-cuts at the bottom end of the scale rather than their favoured top, thus raising hundreds of thousands of very low earners out of the tax threshold entirely. Nonetheless I am disappointed by their time in coalition, but the party has since learnt from its mistakes and refused to go down that road again hence the Tories having to go cap in hand to the DUP. Labour’s mistakes are all current!

 

[ks.234]

Articulating arguments as Her Majesty’s Opposition and being a very junior coalition partner are two very, very different things! Even so as I understand it the LDs reined the Tories austerity project back to pretty much that proposed by Gordon Brown & Alistair Darling, plus forced the Tories to apply tax-cuts at the bottom end of the scale rather than their favoured top, thus raising hundreds of thousands of very low earners out of the tax threshold entirely. Nonetheless I am disappointed by their time in coalition, but the party has since learnt from its mistakes and refused to go down that road again hence the Tories having to go cap in hand to the DUP. Labour’s mistakes are all current!

That’s a very considered and nuanced approach to Clegg’s role in the mess we’re in which I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with were it not for your straight line to visceral hatred with anything and everything Corbyn.

If we’re going to get current, let’s not forget that May called the general election to get an increased majority to drive Brexit through. It was Corbyn who, against all the odds, mobilised the vote, leadership I think it’s called, and annihilated that majority and actually stalled Brexit.

Also, Corbyn is the only politician who has actually stood full square against austerity.

Without Clegg, no Brexit. Without Corbyn, Brexit would’ve been a done deal (not very good deal) two (edit; bad maths) years ago

 

[Brian]

9% and in 5th place at the EU election in Scotland suggests the Labour party may have a major problem, Cav. That is a really shocking result for the once dominant party up here.

What is it you think Labour could do to stop people who don't want Scottish independence from voting for an independence party?

 

[TheDecameron]

Scottish voters who were against independence voted Tory as a safe bet in 2017. Labour is heading for an extinction event I’m sorry to say. The trend looks like they could be down to the last two Westminster seats at a GE. The Tories are also predicted to have losses now that their lies about fisheries and agriculture have been exposed.

 

[kendo]

What is it you think Labour could do to stop people who don't want Scottish independence from voting for an independence party?

Given the clearer majority for remaining in the EU in Scotland, a stance which acknowledges that and apparently also that of most of their party members. This and the sheer incompetent fiasco* at Westminster are main issues.

* Not a single party issue.

 

[maxflinn]

Anti-Semitism is unquestionably

A fabrication.... given it was never a big issue in the party before Corbyn, when most of the same people were there, and given there are similar to higher levels in the other political parties, yet no 'scandals'.

It's pretty obvious to all bar the Corbyn-haters.

Clegg’s blunder three general elections ago is a mere triviality compared to Corbyn’s....

As ks.234 has pointed out this 'blunder' as you call it in order to try to further demonise Corbyn in comparison was actually willing complicity in implementing the Tory right-wing agenda that enabled both austerity and Brexit.

It was by several orders of magnitude far more damaging to the UK than anything anyone could ever accuse Corbyn of doing, no matter how detached from reality they were.

Corbyn is in fact the biggest opponent of Tory/Lib-Dem austerity and the best hope for ending it.

PS Actually he’s worse than that, the moronic prick wanted A50 bashed through immediately without any plan or strategy! He can act immediately on that, but not on blindingly obvious examples of racism or sexism towards his MPs or within his party...

It wasn't very clever of him to suggest invoking article 50 on that morning, but still, it was nothing whatsoever to do with him that Leave won.

Again, you ignore the fact that he's not a dictator, and any accusations of anti-Semitism must be dealt with via the correct process, not by him wielding an axe.

P.S. I'll be sorry I posted this as once rational people will either ignore or dismiss the valid points made, making sure to stick in a 'Corbyn is scum', or some such nasty rhetoric in their posts of denial.

Toxic!

 

[Brian]

Given the clearer majority for remaining in the EU in Scotland, a stance which acknowledges that and apparently also that of most of their party members. This and the sheer incompetent fiasco* at Westminster are main issues.

* Not a single party issue.

Yes, but what do you expect Labour to do about it in Scotland? Not everyone is voting SNP, some are still voting Tory despite them causing brexit and needlessly following a path of austerity for the last 9 years.

 

[Marchbanks]

[Jeremy Corbyn] wanted A50 bashed through immediately without any plan or strategy...

...and when you remember that it does help explain his subsequent - er - ‘inscrutability.’

 

[gassor]

What is it you think Labour could do to stop people who don't want Scottish independence from voting for an independence party?

Labour could tell Leonard to take a hike and appoint a leader who isn't afraid to go head to head with Nicola Sturgeon, who doesn't come across as a Corbyn clone but is able to produce some independent thinking on Scottish issues. The majority of Scots voted for Remain so it might be a good idea for Labour up here to maybe represent these peoples wishes and come out strongly in favour of staying in the EU. Wild eh?

There are significant issues to be dealt with regarding Scottish independence eg currency and exchange rate and these need to be highlighted by Labour. Also there are warring factions in the SNP and there is room for Labour to exploit this.

 

[Brian]

Scottish voters who were against independence voted Tory as a safe bet in 2017. Labour is heading for an extinction event I’m sorry to say. The trend looks like they could be down to the last two Westminster seats at a GE. The Tories are also predicted to have losses now that their lies about fisheries and agriculture have been exposed.

Blimey! People voted Tory as a safe bet...

If Labour is heading for extinction in Scotland then why should Labour waste energy trying to swing the SNP voters because those that want independence won't be moved?

If the others are of a mind to vote Tory "as a safe bet", then I think what is a safe bet is those people have some fundamental issue with Labour so won't be moved either.

This means Labour should concentrate on trying to win sufficient support across the rest of the UK in order to replace the tories in govt and pretty much forget about winning over support in Scotland.

Labour could tell Leonard to take a hike and appoint a leader who isn't afraid to go head to head with Nicola Sturgeon, who doesn't come across as a Corbyn clone but is able to produce some independent thinking on Scottish issues. The majority of Scots voted for Remain so it might be a good idea for Labour up here to maybe represent these peoples wishes and come out strongly in favour of staying in the EU. Wild eh?

There are significant issues to be dealt with regarding Scottish independence eg currency and exchange rate and these need to be highlighted by Labour. Also there are warring factions in the SNP and there is room for Labour to exploit this.

I disagree with that first paragraph, particularly the suggestion Labour should come out strongly in favour of staying in the EU. There has been a referendum across the UK and the result was to leave.

If Scots want to remain in the EU at any cost then you have to go for independence from the UK and join the EU. I hope you get a decent deal but don't forget, you'll be dealing with the same intransigence encounterd by May's bunch, so be careful what you wish for.