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General Election 2024

ks.234 said:
We might disagree where about on the map Starmer is, but he’s on the f*cking map. Macron has laid the table for Le Pen. Are we about to do the same for Reform?
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My suspicion is it is already baked-in, and was baked-in with Brexit, likely before that. There is no way forward without challenging the thinking and decisions of the past. Starmer can’t possibly change path on terms that in reality were dictated by the UK financial services industry, Johnson, Farage, Murdoch, the fossil fuel industry, money-laundering oligarchs etc etc at least a decade ago.

The best offer Starmer is making is to hold us in limbo on the precipice of fascism for 5 years rather than taking us directly there via Tufton St chasing Trump’s coat tails the way the modern Tories or Reform would. As such Starmer is making the better offer, but it is still a shit offer as it denies reality. It addresses zero elephants in a room now rammed absolutely full to the ceiling with elephants.
 
Tony L said:
There is little if any difference between Front National and the modern post-Johnson Tory Party or Reform, and I’d peg Starmer around Macron on the map. We can’t look down on anyone. The rise of far-right populism/fascism is a near-global movement and our elites are all backing it with £billions.

PS My theory, for what little it is worth, is that the wealthy establishment elites know exactly what is coming with climate change and want to get the demonisation of immigrants/mass-emigration in early so we are all suitably gaslit and conditioned for the atrocities that lie ahead. Vast areas of this planet will shortly be under water. Money, power and privilege will always be protected.
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I’m not looking down on anyone.
 
Finnegan said:
As much as you protest otherwise, you do come across as condescending with your “righteous anger” line.

And you’re on to something with France and the revolution, but maybe not quite in the way you think. The Republic’s strict demarcation of church and state completely wrong footed the French left. Large sections of the French left went along with the hijab ban, falling for the ‘liberating Muslim women’ line, instead of seeing it for what it was: a racist attack on French Muslims. I’ve yet to hear of a Catholic nun being stopped in the street and made to change out of her habit.

They consistently and disastrously failed to call out Le Pen snr. as a fascist, instead SOS Racisme went down the ‘both as bad as each other’ Hope Not Hate line. The reason nobody from the far right has been elected to the U.K. Parliament is due to them being beaten back time after time: the battle of Cable Street. The battle of Lewisham. The anti-Nazi league, Rock Against Racism, Unite Against Fascism and Stand Up To Racism have all made a vital contribution that has been largely absent in France and has allowed the normalisation of fascism to the extent that it is now a permanent and growing fixture of French politics. All the while clueless liberals like Macron and Starmer have ‘denounced both sides.”

The Blairite French Socialist Party abandoned their core vote and went down the Blair/ Starmer line of courting the bosses. Macron broke with the SP and went into the sort of disastrous centrism Starmer has embarked upon. Le Pen snr. once remarked, in relation to the SP being dragged to the right in fear of losing ground to the NF, that people always prefer the original, and with his daughter looking odds on to assume the presidency, he had a point. So perhaps not quite as irrelevant as you assume.
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Ironic that you consider me condescending;)

I have long since stopped being ideological & have tired of being lectured to on matters of geo-politics. You kind of assume that I am not aware of social history & politics which isn’t really the case. The truth is I’ve long since lost interest due to the lack of difference I am able to make.

Your point about the hijab is a very valid one, there is certainly an admiration of the French from certain elements of the left here; it’s probably where they go on holiday;) A lot of nuns don’t bother with habits now though, quite a rare site these days. I’ve never been religious so the hate bandied around is absolutely lost on me, just can’t process it.

I’m one of those people who work in the private sector, actually within the advertising industry, so grew tired of the scorn poured upon me many years ago. My sector has contributed to the overall GDP for some time now; I pay my taxes & have tried to give my children every advantage without harming the prospects of others.

Content yourself that the hopefully incoming Labour cabinet will be the most working class possibly ever; over 70% come from state school backgrounds.

You never know, they may well do a better job than you expect & be more effective at facing down the right wing shits like Farage.
 
Woodface said:
Ironic that you consider me condescending;)

I have long since stopped being ideological & have tired of being lectured to on matters of geo-politics. You kind of assume that I am not aware of social history & politics which isn’t really the case. The truth is I’ve long since lost interest due to the lack of difference I am able to make.

Your point about the hijab is a very valid one, there is certainly an admiration of the French from certain elements of the left here; it’s probably where they go on holiday;) A lot of nuns don’t bother with habits now though, quite a rare site these days. I’ve never been religious so the hate bandied around is absolutely lost on me, just can’t process it.

I’m one of those people who work in the private sector, actually within the advertising industry, so grew tired of the scorn poured upon me many years ago. My sector has contributed to the overall GDP for some time now; I pay my taxes & have tried to give my children every advantage without harming the prospects of others.

Content yourself that the hopefully incoming Labour cabinet will be the most working class possibly ever; over 70% come from state school backgrounds.

You never know, they may well do a better job than you expect & be more effective at facing down the right wing shits like Farage.
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Ok fine. I’m all for a civilised, adult discussion. Even if we disagree.
 

‘The Tories don’t care about you!’ The 2024 election – as seen from Glastonbury​

But it is the Palestinian flag that dominates this year. “That’s the issue of the day,” says Ben Beach from London. “Along with a general weariness about how utterly uninspiring Starmer’s Labour is.” Solidarity with Gaza comes from performers, too, in ways subtle and overt. Members of LCD Soundsystem have the green, white and red flag painted as their eye makeup; the Irish band Kneecap unfurl a flag on stage and Charlotte Church sings: “Free Palestine.”

www.theguardian.com

‘The Tories don’t care about you!’ The 2024 election – as seen from Glastonbury

At the festival there’s a background hum of grimness and a deep commitment to unconditional love. Will hope or hopelessness win out?
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
gavreid said:

‘The Tories don’t care about you!’ The 2024 election – as seen from Glastonbury​

But it is the Palestinian flag that dominates this year. “That’s the issue of the day,” says Ben Beach from London. “Along with a general weariness about how utterly uninspiring Starmer’s Labour is.” Solidarity with Gaza comes from performers, too, in ways subtle and overt. Members of LCD Soundsystem have the green, white and red flag painted as their eye makeup; the Irish band Kneecap unfurl a flag on stage and Charlotte Church sings: “Free Palestine.”

www.theguardian.com

‘The Tories don’t care about you!’ The 2024 election – as seen from Glastonbury

At the festival there’s a background hum of grimness and a deep commitment to unconditional love. Will hope or hopelessness win out?
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Glastonbury sells something like 200,000 tickets right? And it sold out in an hour, which means it could probably have sold ten times that number. The preponderance of visible support for Palestine, the ‘Free, Free Palestine’ chants from the crowd and the amount of messages of solidarity from the stage, leaves us in no doubt of the level of support for the Palestinian people and how out of touch our political class is.
 
Tony L said:
My suspicion is it is already baked-in, and was baked-in with Brexit, likely before that. There is no way forward without challenging the thinking and decisions of the past. Starmer can’t possibly change path on terms that in reality were dictated by the UK financial services industry, Johnson, Farage, Murdoch, the fossil fuel industry, money-laundering oligarchs etc etc at least a decade ago.

The best offer Starmer is making is to hold us in limbo on the precipice of fascism for 5 years rather than taking us directly there via Tufton St chasing Trump’s coat tails the way the modern Tories or Reform would. As such Starmer is making the better offer, but it is still a shit offer as it denies reality. It addresses zero elephants in a room now rammed absolutely full to the ceiling with elephants.
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Yup
 
I'm not a UK "subject" but would hate to see England's parliament with a lot of Farage's gang sitting there. France and Italy are enough! The latest polls I've seen show Tories and Labour losing a few points, and Reform gaining a few. And in four days a lot could happen.
Therefore it pains me to see a lot of self-declared socialists declare they will never vote Labour because today's Labour has betrayed its socialist principles. Or because it is Starmer instead of Corbyn, an unrealistic left-wing romantic who couldn't win an election if he tried.
Starmer may not be your, personal, ideal Labour leader. But he evidently responds to the views of a vast proportion of the electorate. Which is, after all, what democracy is all about.
So please, anyone who is voting where it could make the difference between Labour winning or losing, please vote Labour!
 
PaulMB said:
I'm not a UK "subject" but would hate to see England's parliament with a lot of Farage's gang sitting there. France and Italy are enough! The latest polls I've seen show Tories and Labour losing a few points, and Reform gaining a few. And in four days a lot could happen.
Therefore it pains me to see a lot of self-declared socialists declare they will never vote Labour because today's Labour has betrayed its socialist principles. Or because it is Starmer instead of Corbyn, an unrealistic left-wing romantic who couldn't win an election if he tried.
Starmer may not be your, personal, ideal Labour leader. But he evidently responds to the views of a vast proportion of the electorate. Which is, after all, what democracy is all about.
So please, anyone who is voting where it could make the difference between Labour winning or losing, please vote Labour!
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Not taking lectures from a a genocide supporter.
 
Hopefully Starmer has realised that if you insult large swathes of your core voters it's not a good thing. Surprised he hasn't called all under 30s a bunch of scrounging drug addicts yet.
 
Woodface said:
Content yourself that the hopefully incoming Labour cabinet will be the most working class possibly ever; over 70% come from state school backgrounds.

You never know, they may well do a better job than you expect & be more effective at facing down the right wing shits like Farage.
Click to expand...
They may. I stay glass half full too. Polling is interesting though as it slides a little for Labour.
 
Woodface said:
I am not as confident as many, I vividly remember 1992.
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They’re still careful, e.g. Pat McFadden on LBC today. In contrast to Dowden who preceded him, he talked about what they will do. Dowden focussed on dire warnings about what might happen if Labour win. Last gasp to whip up the formerly faithful.
 
All the Tories have is lies and scaremongering as they were given 14 years opportunity and they totally f***ed it on every single metric other than lining their own pockets at our expense. What else is a creepy shitweasel like Oliver Dowden to do?
 
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