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General Election 2024

I can’t recall whether this has been linked before, but regardless, it is worth posting/reposting:


A rational grounded analysis of where we are and what fascism is. This guy is an economist, a credible academic, it is not some fringe view.

Essential viewing for anyone still thinking of voting Tory/Reform. Understand the definition. Understand the history. Understand the rhetoric. Know exactly what you are doing and take responsibility for your actions. Be in no doubt, this is the door you are opening.
 
Tony L said:
A rational grounded analysis of where we are and what fascism is. Essential viewing for anyone thinking of voting Tory/Reform. Understand the definition. Understand the history, Understand the rhetoric. Take responsibility for your actions. This guy is an economist, a credible academic, it is not some fringe view.
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It's impossible to talk about Fascism without an understanding of class. I actually found it pretty superficial and chose not to link to it
 
gavreid said:
It's impossible to talk about Fascism without an understanding of class. I actually found it pretty superficial and chose not to link to it
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Agreed, but it is nine minutes long, and manages to ring the alarm bell. I’ll take that as a win at this stage.

I also find this list that I believe originates from the US Holocaust Museum useful and worth reposting multiple times:

EARLY WARNING SIGNS OF FASCISM
  1. Powerful and continuing nationalism
  2. Disdain for human rights
  3. Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
  4. Supremacy of the military
  5. Rampant sexism
  6. Controlled mass media
  7. Obsession with national security
  8. Religion and government intertwined
  9. Corporate power protected
  10. Labor power suppressed
  11. Disdain for intellectuals & the arts
  12. Obsession with crime and punishment
  13. Rampant cronyism and corruption
  14. Fraudulent elections
Hard to point to much there that is not present in the daily rhetoric of the current UK Conservative Party or Reform. Those considering voting for these parties need to read that list and grasp the significance of what they are doing. They need to understand what they are willingly bringing forth.

This is where we are. We need to recognise it and fight it with everything we have. This shit should never be normalised. It can never be accepted.

PS A far more detailed read here, including the above list (credited to Lawrence Britt):

Definitions of fascism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Tony L said:
Agreed, but it is nine minutes long, and manages to ring the alarm bell. I’ll take that as a win at this stage.
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The important point I think is that Trump is much more organised and prepared this time around, with proper support and not just from dodgy second rate lawyers etc but a host of hard right think tanks a big money, while the opposition looks to be feeble.
 
gavreid said:
The important point I think is that Trump is much more organised and prepared this time around, with proper support and not just from dodgy second rate lawyers etc but a host of hard right think tanks a big money, while the opposition looks to be feeble.
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Yes, America is at huge risk. If Trump wins in November that is the last election in any real sense for a very, very long time. I doubt Trump will outlive the presidential term, but he has already put in place a radical far-right Supreme Court and will build in that, gerrymandering is being ramped up, and he has already stated clearly his authoritarian intent. When a fascist tells you very clearly in advance they are going to bring fascism it is wise to believe them IMHO.

Starmer’s Labour, cowardly and ideologically absent as they are, will at least act as a five year fire-break for the UK. It will give us time to think and hopefully time to grasp America and France are on a terrifyingly wrong path. It is all we can hope for. If the next government can even halt the movement that is a win. It is clear the Tories and Reform (who I suspect will shortly merge/rebrand) gain control they will follow Trump and Le Pen’s every move. Of that I have zero doubt. They have both been doing it for the past 5-10 years already, so are unlikely to change if far-right ideology obtains absolute power in America.

This is a very important election IMO. I detest Starmer, he is the bluntest tool (son of a tool-maker) imaginable in the face of fascism. Sadly he is all that is on the table other than bricks, bottles and baseball bats on the street.
 

Starmer says far-right victory in France proves left must show 'only progressives have answers' to problems people facing​

[I'm not sure if this was an offer to stand down or an acknowledgement that Labour needs to actually be progressive ;)]

Starmer’s reference to “progressives” may do something to assure people on the left alarmed by the briefing in the Sunday Times yesterday, from a Labour insider, saying that if Starmer wins the election, he will use his first speech as PM to “show that politics can be a force for good rather than the utopian view of progressive liberalism”.

www.theguardian.com

UK general election live: Starmer says far-right victory in France proves left must show ‘only progressives have answers’

Labour leader says ‘we need to address the everyday concerns of so many people in this country’ after millions voted for far right in France
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Leaflet #5 has landed. Reform, the lightest yet at 5g. A colour A5 flier with picture of public school millionaire elites Tice and Farage on one side and typical fascist rallying calls of xenophobia, othering, scapegoating and the erosion of human rights. All about immigration, “stopping the boats”, leaving the ECHR, demonising foreign workers etc. No detail, just 1970s National Front bullet points. 100% fascist.

Lucky for them they didn’t ring the bell. Absolute scum.

PS Anyone is genuinely thinking of voting for this fascist shit just f*** right off my forum. You are not welcome here. You will never be welcome here. Life is too short to deal with racist/bigoted knobheads. I’d physically throw you out in person, so just go.
 
gavreid said:

Starmer says far-right victory in France proves left must show 'only progressives have answers' to problems people facing​

[I'm not sure if this was an offer to stand down or an acknowledgement that Labour needs to actually be progressive ;)]

Starmer’s reference to “progressives” may do something to assure people on the left alarmed by the briefing in the Sunday Times yesterday, from a Labour insider, saying that if Starmer wins the election, he will use his first speech as PM to “show that politics can be a force for good rather than the utopian view of progressive liberalism”.

www.theguardian.com

UK general election live: Starmer says far-right victory in France proves left must show ‘only progressives have answers’

Labour leader says ‘we need to address the everyday concerns of so many people in this country’ after millions voted for far right in France
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Macron’s ‘progressiveness’ has just posted the keys to the presidents office to Madame Le Pen. Sir Keir bang on the money as ever.
 
Tony L said:
Leaflet #5 has landed. Reform, the lightest yet at 5g. A colour A5 flier with picture of public school millionaire elites Tice and Farage on one side and typical fascist rallying calls of xenophobia, othering, scapegoating and the erosion of human rights. All about immigration, “stopping the boats”, leaving the ECHR, demonising foreign workers etc. No detail, just 1970s National Front bullet points. 100% fascist.

Lucky for them they didn’t ring the bell. Absolute scum.

PS Anyone is genuinely thinking of voting for this fascist shit just f*** right off my forum. You are not welcome here. You will never be welcome here. Life is too short to deal with racist/bigoted knobheads. I’d physically throw you out in person, so just go.
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Sadly, to put it politely, on the which way will you vote poll on this forum 19 have indicated that they will vote for Reform. Hopefully they’ll get your message and leave. I try to be reasonably tolerant but reform is beyond my tolerance.

Regarding the ch4 report, which farage claims was a setup, has it occurred to anyone that the whole thing was set up by farage so that he could attract that sort of bigot whilst at the same time then pretend to be holier than thou by claiming it to be a media conspiracy. Who knows?
 
camverton said:
Sadly, to put it politely, on the which way will you vote poll on this forum 19 have indicated that they will vote for Reform. Hopefully they’ll get your message and leave. I try to be reasonably tolerant but reform is beyond my tolerance.
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I strongly suspect some are trolling, some will inevitably be previously banned members shitposting from another sock-puppet account, but any who are serious need to get the message now this is a multi-cultural LGBTQ+ friendly anti-nationalist and above all anti-fascist website. I’ve tried to make this as clear I possibly can. To put it another way if this was a high st record shop and someone tried to stick a NF, BNP, EDL poster up how long do you think it would be before I pointed to the baseball bat and politely showed them to the door?

I’d far prefer to convince people not to vote for fascism with logic and historical evidence, I’m trying very hard to do that by allowing political discussion on the site and making the case as best as I can, but if that is not possible it is never wrong to defend oneself or one’s property from fascists.
 
ks.234 said:
And your point is? If you read my post you will see I have a question; how Labour is ideologically different t to the Tories?



Such as?



So you keep saying
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I do. But accusations of repetition from you are a bit rich. I just think that the constant doom saying may not be the most constructive mental approach to what will probably happen on Thursday.

You surely cannot dispute that despite the claimed similarities in ideology there won’t be differences in execution? That is my argument. There’s a lot we aren’t being told. It may lean either way. Let’s see.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1335884489004900352

Here’s a rather grainy photo of a National Front poster in the 1970s. This is what Rock Against Racism, the ANL etc was set up to counter (two groups I would very happily align pfm with). The similarity between that and the Reform flyer pushed through my door earlier is blindingly obvious. A vote for reform is a vote for the National Front, Oswald Mosley’s Union Of Fascists, the BNP, Britain First, the EDL etc. It is the same thing time-travelling through history.

Don’t be taken in by multi-millionaire public school elites. This product contains 100% fascism.
 
Tony L said:
I can’t recall whether this has been linked before, but regardless, it is worth posting/reposting:


A rational grounded analysis of where we are and what fascism is. This guy is an economist, a credible academic, it is not some fringe view.

Essential viewing for anyone still thinking of voting Tory/Reform. Understand the definition. Understand the history. Understand the rhetoric. Know exactly what you are doing and take responsibility for your actions. Be in no doubt, this is the door you are opening.
Click to expand...

Personally I'd tend to recommend good text books than watch videos. Examples like the "No Nonsense Guides" published by New Internationalist have far more detail and data and deeper explanations that dismantle the usual garbage politicians spout.

That said, if you want a good video I'd suggest this as an interesting example:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001gf42

Have a copy courtesy of get-iplayer and watched that again a few days ago. Sadly, I think it won't be repeated until after the Election. Maybe the BBC were too nervous of making available before that.
 
Meanwhile we also had a leaflet from UKIP. While this will hopefully split off some particularly dim gammon, one of the policies was to reverse devolution under the concept of one country, one law.

Which may come as an interesting concept to those north of the border...
 
Jubal said:
I do. But accusations of repetition from you are a bit rich. I just think that the constant doom saying may not be the most constructive mental approach to what will probably happen on Thursday.
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So you keep saying. Why do you keep replying to me just to say the same thing again and again

Jubal said:
You surely cannot dispute that despite the claimed similarities in ideology
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Yet again, I have not said they are identical in every way. They will wear different coloured ties for one thing.

Jubal said:
there won’t be differences in execution? That is my argument.
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What differences are you expecting? Or is it the same thing delivered in a different way

Jubal said:
There’s a lot we aren’t being told. It may lean either way. Let’s see.
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There’s a lot we are being told, but hey, let’s ignore that and pin everything on something we haven’t been told.
 
Finnegan said:
Macron’s ‘progressiveness’ has just posted the keys to the presidents office to Madame Le Pen. Sir Keir bang on the money as ever.
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With respect, I don't think it's done that. The presidential election is in 3 years' time. I don't think Le Pen is going to end up with a ruling majority in parliament, either, but could be wrong on that of course. Bardella has already said he would not accept an offer to be PM if his party didn't have an absolute majority at the Assembly, and it doesn't look as if he will come anywhere near that. But I don't want to clutter up the GE2024 thread with stuff about the French mess.
 
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