General Election 2024
- Thread starter gavreid
- Start date
droodzilla
pfm Member
Tony L
Administrator
My impression, and that’s all it is as I don’t know anyone who was taken in by Farage, is it is all based on a false/imagined nostalgia for a past that never existed. A desire for the sanitised sepia-tinted received pronunciation past of Ealing comedies, WWII movies, musicals etc, not the harsh realities of pensioner poverty, failing healthcare, new and confusing cultures and technologies etc. I’m positive that is what ghouls and spivs like Farage. Trump and much of the Conservative Party are tapping into, though are doing so as a confidence trick to get very rich indeed. It is a reason Farage, Trump and their cult leader Steve Bannon admire brutal tyrants like Putin who use absolute power and violence so much. A simple easy to sell childlike good vs. bad narrative that a certain demographic will choose over reality.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Yes, Labour are just as policy free as Reform, so any criticism of one should perhaps be levelled at the other.
Finnegan
It’s shite being Scottish!
I try to imagine a parallel universe where the Soviet Union won the Cold War and gradually colonised Turkey, Greece and Austria and how threatened the west would have been.
Recognising NATO’s machinations through its proxy war in Ukraine does not make you a Putin stooge. So f*ck right off with that crap!
Recognising NATO’s machinations through its proxy war in Ukraine does not make you a Putin stooge. So f*ck right off with that crap!
Tony L
Administrator
No idea why you reject mountains of hard evidence here. If you really believe there was no connection between Russia and selling Brexit you are out there in Alex Jones or George Galloway land IMHO. I’ve never understood why you smear Carol Cadwaldr. One of very few UK journalists actually willing to speak truth to oligarch power.
PS For clarity: I should have stuck the word ‘traitor’ in quotes. It would have made the point I was trying to make better; that the people who would be conned by a shyster/grifter like Farage would think his obvious links to and support of Putin merited that term. I have no issue with calling our state out and holding a polar opposite view, e.g. I view the UK as a partner in an apartheid genocide in Gaza and the West Bank. Much the same for selling the tools of death and destruction to murderous homophobic tyrannies such as Saudi.
ff1d1l
pfm Member
Dear dear, you don't usually post utter bollocks, but you're making up for lost time here.
MVV
pfm Member
I agree and find it interesting that because what they want to say ‘can’t be said‘ or ‘isn’t allowed to be said‘ it is never heard. And if you are not heard you keep saying it in the ways you feel ‘allowed to’. Ultimately it is never talked about like a family secret passed down the generations. ”Not the Brexit I voted for…” They say
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MVV
pfm Member
All together now:
‘who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler,
If you think we're on the run?
We are the boys who will stop your little game.
We are the boys who will make you think again.
'Cause who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler,
If you think old England's done?
Mr. Brown goes off to town on the eight twenty-one,
But he comes home each evening and he's ready with his gun.
So who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler,
If you think old England's done?’
‘who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler,
If you think we're on the run?
We are the boys who will stop your little game.
We are the boys who will make you think again.
'Cause who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler,
If you think old England's done?
Mr. Brown goes off to town on the eight twenty-one,
But he comes home each evening and he's ready with his gun.
So who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler,
If you think old England's done?’
Seanm
pfm Member
I’ve explained my take on this many times and there’s no real point going over it again. It’s simply that the external drivers of Brexit were trivial compared to the internal ones and that focusing excessively on Russian influence actively obscures what’s going on in this country and who’s responsible for it. Cadwalladr embodies this damaging tendency and has performed similar brain melting duties in the fields of public health and media journalism. Matter of time before she’s pinning the worst outcomes of this election on Putin and Zuckerberg.
Tony L
Administrator
She exposed Russian influence. Not only that she exposed Russian influence behind the prime driving force for Brexit (Nigel Farage). She got the receipts. Her work exposing Cambridge Analytica was critical to understanding Brexit too. Again, we have the receipts. This is all very well documented on the historical record.
No one is suggesting it is the whole story. Far-right ethnic nationalism has run through both the Conservative and Labour Parties like streaks in gammon. It has always been there. But so have other interests. Given the economic destruction and social division it has brought to this country it pays to try and understand and learn from it all.
Seanm
pfm Member
Ugh. No she didn’t. Not doing this all over again, the threads are still there I’m sure.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Just met the Labour candidate here at the door. He was on the knocker alone so they clearly have no membership base here. Told him that Starmer disgusts me and he's only getting a tactical vote from me! He tried to say that he was more radical personally and maybe things will turn out better! Yadda, yadda! He thinks he's neck and neck now - that would be a significant blow for the Tories...
To be honest I find all this discussion a bit pointless. We all know the result, to me the only unknown is will Labour have a majority of more or less than 150.
The main question to me is how will the political map change after the election and Starmer takes over as Blair MK11. He could be in for another 10 years. He is going to be very powerful and getting rid of the lefties is going to be a breeze.
First question is what is the future of the Tories. Right now they have thrown in the towel and with Starmer being more Tory than the Tories, do they even have a role. They may slide a bit to the right but everyone knows that the votes go to the centre/right in the UK, so I suspect it's going to still be Tory/Labour contest but more based on personalities rather than a small difference in the two party policies. So it will still be FPTP for years to come. The Tories and Labour will have a combined share of 45% of the vote and there is no way on earth they will vote for another system.
I also think Reform will follow UKIP, they will soon fade and be replaced by another similar group.
The LibDems just need to select a leader with a brain but for some reason they just can't do it.
I can also see the Greens growing fast. Their basic message is impossible to argue with and all they need is a bit of political positioning. I know a few ex Tories who are thinking of joining them as the Greens are no longer of the Jesus sandal type and know they need to stop Starmer pinching their policies to his advantage. A few green policies can make his Neoliberalism a lot more attractive.
This election may be bloody boring (a first in my lifetime) but it could signal a new era which may be a good or bad thing. It will certainly bring in a bit of fresh air into Parliament.
The main question to me is how will the political map change after the election and Starmer takes over as Blair MK11. He could be in for another 10 years. He is going to be very powerful and getting rid of the lefties is going to be a breeze.
First question is what is the future of the Tories. Right now they have thrown in the towel and with Starmer being more Tory than the Tories, do they even have a role. They may slide a bit to the right but everyone knows that the votes go to the centre/right in the UK, so I suspect it's going to still be Tory/Labour contest but more based on personalities rather than a small difference in the two party policies. So it will still be FPTP for years to come. The Tories and Labour will have a combined share of 45% of the vote and there is no way on earth they will vote for another system.
I also think Reform will follow UKIP, they will soon fade and be replaced by another similar group.
The LibDems just need to select a leader with a brain but for some reason they just can't do it.
I can also see the Greens growing fast. Their basic message is impossible to argue with and all they need is a bit of political positioning. I know a few ex Tories who are thinking of joining them as the Greens are no longer of the Jesus sandal type and know they need to stop Starmer pinching their policies to his advantage. A few green policies can make his Neoliberalism a lot more attractive.
This election may be bloody boring (a first in my lifetime) but it could signal a new era which may be a good or bad thing. It will certainly bring in a bit of fresh air into Parliament.
Alex S
carbon based lifeform
Just because Ed Davey is not some loud mouth grifter does not mean he doesn't have a brain. Pathetic comment.
Wiki: Davey was born in Mansfield, Nottinghamshire. After both his parents died before he was 16, Davey was raised by his grandparents, and subsequently attended Nottingham High School. He then went on to study at Jesus College, Oxford, and Birkbeck, University of London. He was an economics researcher and financial analyst before being elected to the House of Commons.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
My guess is that the Tories will disintegrate with many choosing to leave to spend more time with their money. The Tory Party will be a rump of Reform adjacent nutters led by Mordaunt who will battle it put with Reform to see which becomes the official opposition.
Labour will then be pulled even further to the right in response.
Not a new era, the same ship heading full steam ahead to the same iceberg but with re-upholstered deckchairs