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Gas and Electricity Prices

wulbert said:
I suppose it is, a wee bit. I'm just exploring options. If you recall, my original question was whether being cut-off is the only way to avoid standing charges?
I can bear the high price of electricity that I actually use, but I am really furious about paying extra standing charges to fund the failure of privatised companies like Bulb and others who should never have been allowed into this, so-called "market". Some estimates suggest we will all be paying around £180 this year to cover the cost of failed businesses in a failed business model. If it's privatised, why am I paying a subsidy to cover their business losses?

I could live without mains electricity. I have a wood burning stove, a source of cheap firewood and I know how to rig up solar panels, 12v electrics and inverters to convert the 12v to 240v.
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Look mate you can’t live without electricity it’s as simple as that the standing charge is buttons compared to the cost of fuel, I’m currently paying £23 a month for the gas and electricity standing charges, you’re posting on an Internet forum about living off grid in 2022.

Madness, how much is solar panels ,batteries and invertors going to cost you plus getting someone to fit the panels on the roof and you live in Glasgow which isn’t exactly Malaga.

Bonkers.
 
twotone said:
Look mate you can’t live without electricity it’s as simple as that the standing charge is buttons compared to the cost of fuel, I’m currently paying £23 a month for the gas and electricity standing charges, you’re posting on an Internet forum about living off grid in 2022.

Madness, how much is solar panels ,batteries and invertors going to cost you plus getting someone to fit the panels on the roof and you live in Glasgow which isn’t exactly Malaga.

Bonkers.
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It's a bit eccentric, I'll grant you that.
It's around £500-£600 for a small solar set up inc battery and cable, 130 watt PV panel. Plus the inverter. I build small off-grid timber huts for a living, so I know how to do it and how to live very frugally. £23 a month seems quite a lot of money just to be connected. I have a very low income compared to most people.
 
Richard Lines said:
I think you will find that we will ALL pay the price to some degree.........

Regards

Richard
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Absolutely. ‘Don’t pay’ is going to get a bit of traction from political agitator groups simply because it could be disruptive. They’re probably thinking along the lines of if you owe a bank £100K it’s your problem, if you owe a bank £100M it’s their problem. All they need to do is roll out prepayment meters to those who don’t pay to guarantee payment in advance of usage.

Meanwhile in France, which many hold up as an energy blueprint to aspire, all is hunky dory…

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...vernment-84bn-macron-forces-sell-energy-loss/
 
wulbert said:
It's a bit eccentric, I'll grant you that.
It's around £500-£600 for a small solar set up inc battery and cable, 130 watt PV panel. Plus the inverter. I build small off-grid timber huts for a living, so I know how to do it and how to live very frugally. £23 a month seems quite a lot of money just to be connected. I have a very low income compared to most people.
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Even if you do ‘go off grid’ you still need to have at the very least a back up ie an electricity supply to do otherwise is just plain daft.

The standing charge covers a lot of things not just companies that are insolvent it covers the gas and electricity emergency services for a kick off and it also covers, or it used to, the cost of replacing inefficient boilers by the energy companies think the charge used to be about 6% of the cost of the bill.

Anyway I’m out.
 
Good Morning All,

I have frequently said to Kate that civil insurrection is actually very difficult for a government to deal with and is perhaps a tool the Great British public should use more often.

At the end of the day policing in the UK is by "public consent" because if 67million people decide enough is enough then really something would have to give.

If a large number of people do refuse to pay/ cancel DD's etc. the system would simply be overwhelmed and given that the various bodies would have to follow clearly laid down procedures things would grind to halt pretty quickly amidst potentially appalling PR disasters all round.

Surely even the bunch of cretins currently, nominally, in charge can see the writing on the wall?

Regards

Richard
 
wulbert said:
I know how to rig up solar panels, 12v electrics and inverters to convert the 12v to 240v.
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wulbert said:
I build small off-grid timber huts for a living, so I know how to do it and how to live very frugally
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There's frugal and there's frugal. You'll be well aware that in the depths of winter a solar panel will only produce 10% output and then over a very restricted period.

My 12kW system produces maybe 3kW a day in December/ January and that is averaging across the two months, the actual December figures are probably nearer 1.5kW a day.

12kW is quite a large system by normal domestic standards...........

Regards

Richard
 
Ponty said:
All they need to do is roll out prepayment meters to those who don’t pay to guarantee payment in advance of usage.
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Let's just say that all the households in fuel poverty did it - so 7m households. It's not just a case of "all they need to do is roll out pre-payment meters" because the scale of such an operation is unimaginably huge, unimaginably expensive and would take years. Even for 1m it would be logistically massive.

Instead, they would need to do something else, like, I don't know.....work at making bills more affordable.
 
farfromthesun said:
Let's just say that all the households in fuel poverty did it - so 7m households. It's not just a case of "all they need to do is roll out pre-payment meters" because the scale of such an operation is unimaginably huge, unimaginably expensive and would take years. Even for 1m it would be logistically massive.

Instead, they would need to do something else, like, I don't know.....work at making bills more affordable.
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Again, the fuel poverty definition is not representative. Someone sitting on assets who may be technically in fuel poverty isn’t going to stop paying, unless they want their credit rating etc screwed up and yes, being put on prepayment. Why would energy companies provide fuel to people in advance when they know they don’t pay?
 
Richard Lines said:
Far from it, however, the money expended needs to be wisely spent. The NHS is an organisation that has grown and grown and grown without any obvious sign of a restructuring it must sorely need by now so simply throwing more money at it needs to be done in a structured way.
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You may have been asleep for a few decades. The NHS has repeatedly been 'resurctured' in recent decades. Its is now riddled with outsourcings, trusts, non-NHS workers, etc. It is also forced to 'borrow to meet its (impossible) targets' etc and the Government then treat that as a *credit* for Government as a 'loan'. My better half served on one of the statutory bodies that oversee it, and saw a lot of this. Much of it is carefully hidden from the public by sticking an 'NHS' badge on top.
 
Ponty said:
Again, the fuel poverty definition is not representative. Someone sitting on assets who may be technically in fuel poverty isn’t going to stop paying, unless they want their credit rating etc screwed up and yes, being put on prepayment. Why would energy companies provide fuel to people in advance when they know they don’t pay?
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I don't know how many people will take it up and used the fuel poverty figure as a starting point. The bottom line is that if a significant number of people do it, then mass cut offs of power and gas is very unlikely because a) the situation is entirely unprecedented and b) the damage it would do to their brand would be incalculable.

Can you imagine the catastrophic human, political and economical impact that cutting off fuel supplies to a high number of desperate households would lead to?
 
clivem2 said:
Just imagine if we get one of those very cold winters, like 2010 with temps in the negative teens of centigrade. It really does not bear thinking about.
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I have been pondering this myself as life can be very cruel at times. It wouldn't' surprise me one bit if we were to have a cold winter, I hope for many that we don't though...
 
farfromthesun said:
I don't know how many people will take it up and used the fuel poverty figure as a starting point. The bottom line is that if a significant number of people do it, then mass cut offs of power and gas is very unlikely because a) the situation is entirely unprecedented and b) the damage it would do to their brand would be incalculable.

Can you imagine the catastrophic human, political and economical impact that cutting off fuel supplies to a high number of desperate households would lead to?
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I think most people will do what they can and energy companies are likely to be sympathetic. No doubt they are working through the scenarios right now. Arrears will rise hugely this winter. What energy companies won’t tolerate IMHO is people who can pay simply refusing to, which is what the ‘don’t pay’ campaign seems to want to whip up.
 
Jim Audiomisc said:
You may have been asleep for a few decades. The NHS has repeatedly been 'resurctured' in recent decades. Its is now riddled with outsourcings, trusts, non-NHS workers, etc. It is also forced to 'borrow to meet its (impossible) targets' etc and the Government then treat that as a *credit* for Government as a 'loan'. My better half served on one of the statutory bodies that oversee it, and saw a lot of this. Much of it is carefully hidden from the public by sticking an 'NHS' badge on top.
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Jim - I should express myself more clearly. I'm suggesting that it needs restructuring in a way that benefits the UK population rather then the efforts to date.

Regards

Richard
 
Ponty said:
I think most people will do what they can and energy companies are likely to be sympathetic. No doubt they are working through the scenarios right now. Arrears will rise hugely this winter. What energy companies won’t tolerate IMHO is people who can pay simply refusing to, which is what the ‘don’t pay’ campaign seems to want to whip up.
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If the numbers that don't pay are significant, they won't be able to cut off en-masse, as I mention above. People are struggling already, as the story below makes clear. People taking out loans to pay the bills. This is a downward spiral, and drastic action is needed. If it's not taken by the government, or by the energy suppliers, then it will be taken by people who have been forced into dire situations and have no other options.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62483770
 
My 2 yr deal coming to an end. 190 per month is going to 414 variable. I thought it would be worse - and yes in Spring it probably will be. But seriously looking at some investment in the heating system - the payback period to install several remote control radiator stats has suddenly got shorter!
 
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I received this email today so they are preparing us for power cuts to come. I read this as a will have power cuts not a maybe
 
farfromthesun said:
If the numbers that don't pay are significant, they won't be able to cut off en-masse, as I mention above. People are struggling already, as the story below makes clear. People taking out loans to pay the bills. This is a downward spiral, and drastic action is needed. If it's not taken by the government, or by the energy suppliers, then it will be taken by people who have been forced into dire situations and have no other options.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62483770
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I quite like ML as he makes people more aware of important financial matters (whilst earning a good few quid out of them at the same time, genius….). As I’ve said all along, most will be able to prioritise budgets and will be able to pay. Those who cannot should be helped. I don’t sense the fuel poverty definition accurately reflects the numbers who genuinely cannot pay. I don’t think the govt (ie other taxpayers) should bail out people who simply need to make cutbacks elsewhere.
 
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