Election night 2019 / aftermath

[Dave H.]

Nigel Dodds gone, I think I heard another DUP seat lost too, plus a big surge against them in another seat they had hoped to win. Clearly a shift against unionists going on.

Where does this leave NI, especially if BJ sticks to his sacred Brexit deal? Hopefully not facing Troubles 2.0?

 

[Seanm]

I don't believe that is the main issue. This election has shown that the country rejects Corbyn's brand of socialism but I believe it will take a long time before the party accepts that and swings back towards the centre ground.

It’s worse than that. There is going to be a lot of left vs centre sniping but the fact is that if you treat 2017 as an anomaly then the popular vote for right wing Labour, centre-left Labour and left wing Labour is about the same this century. On that basis it seems the Tories have a death grip on the country and food banks, detention centres and economic decline are going to be a fixture until the current crop of pensioners die out. It’s a very bleak picture and who’s in charge of the party and even whether or not it has a mass bass of engaged, progressive young activists seems to be almost irrelevant.

What has to be explained is 2017. I thought it was a sign of things to come but no. So what was it?

 

[flatpopely]

JC speech, no one is there!

 

[Tim Jones]

It’s worse than that. There is going to be a lot of left vs centre sniping but the fact is that if you treat 2017 as an anomaly then the popular vote for right wing Labour, centre-left Labour and left wing Labour is about the same this century. On that basis it seems the Tories have a death grip on the country and food banks, detention centres and economic decline are going to be a fixture until the current crop of pensioners die out. It’s a very bleak picture and who’s in charge of the party and even whether or not it has a mass bass of engaged, progressive young activists seems to be almost irrelevant.

What has to be explained is 2017. I thought it was a sign of things to come but no. So what was it?

A "death grip" that was defeated three times - 97, 01, 05. Oh, sorry, "neoliberalism".

 

[hermit]

It’s worse than that. There is going to be a lot of left vs centre sniping but the fact is that if you treat 2017 as an anomaly then the popular vote for right wing Labour, centre-left Labour and left wing Labour is about the same this century. On that basis it seems the Tories have a death grip on the country and food banks, detention centres and economic decline are going to be a fixture until the current crop of pensioners die out. It’s a very bleak picture and who’s in charge of the party and even whether or not it has a mass bass of engaged, progressive young activists seems to be almost irrelevant.

What has to be explained is 2017. I thought it was a sign of things to come but no. So what was it?

It could have been a sign of things to come but then Corbyn spectacularly failed to capitalise on the moment. You're spot on. The outlook is bleak. It could take a generation before we see the Tories out of government.

 

[TheDecameron]

Nigel Dodds leader of the DUP has lost to Sinn Féin!! The demographic shift continues in N. Ireland.

 

[Seanm]

A "death grip" that was defeated three times - 97, 01, 05. Oh, sorry, "neoliberalism".

Tim, you can draw a line between Blair’s neglect of the north and the nihilism that’s now taken hold of the country- *your* country of reason and liberalism that as an Irishman I’ll never understand.

 

[TheDecameron]

LibDem leader Jo Swinson taken down by the SNP and another Tory booted out.

 

[Yank]

My condolences to our UK friends.

 

[wacko]

England is going to get the Brexit it so wants. Splitting the Remain vote was bloody stupid but we can no longer argue that people were misled. All very sad.
There is nothing United about this Kingdom: there could be serious problems in Ireland and Scotland now.
The only silver lining is that Boris has the opportunity to deliver a soft Brexit, but he will do what is best for Boris.
Goodbye Mr Corbyn: you may have integrity but it seems that is not enough.

 

[kendo]

Dennis Skinner gone!

 

[TheDecameron]

Another smug Tory booted out of Scotland.

 

[TheDecameron]

England is going to get the Brexit it so wants. Splitting the Remain vote was bloody stupid but we can no longer argue that people were misled. All very sad.
There is nothing United about this Kingdom: there could be serious problems in Ireland and Scotland now.
The only silver lining is that Boris has the opportunity to deliver a soft Brexit, but he will do what is best for Boris.
Goodbye Mr Corbyn: you may have integrity but it seems that is not enough.

Northern Ireland concerns me. A democratic vacuum engineered by the DUP who are now shrivelled in Westminster, no longer of use to Boris Johnson. He’s going to give them a border in the Irish Sea or across Ireland. The only question is which shade of militants will kick off violence again.

 

[Philim]

Thank God for the sake of my children. Not a great night for me as I am sad we will definitely leave Europe but at least corbyn was stopped. Scotland may leave but they were going in either outcome.

To the far left that dominate and bully this forum.

You got what you deserved. You call people racist, stupid, nasty and were so blinded by hate and envy you became and supported the same thing you purport to hate.

You lost because you didn't listen. You were right about everything. If anyone disagreed with your mantra they were spivs, racists etc. People tried to tell you that the leader was wrong, the economics were too radical.

You look down on the people who were your core voters and treated them like idiots. People are not stupid. They don't want full Marxism and they realise that your economics don't work. They went too far. They realised your brexit stance was disingenuous.

You would have won this election with a centre left leader.

No doubt you will spend the next 4 year's reflecting by blaming everyone else. But I hope you don't. You didn't lose because of media, Tories, brexit etc. You lost because your leader was poor. You lost because your economics don't and have never worked at the extremity you were proposing. You lost because your continuous self smugness on being morally superior on everything turns people off. People realise life is not that simple. You lost because you treated voters like idiots. You lost because you supported a toxic, racist and incompetent leader who attracted people with even more extreme views and ignored people telling you otherwise.

I hope for the sake of labour corbyn goes immediately and a more centre left leader regains the party. If you let him choose your successor then you will lose again in 5 years.

 

[SteveS1]

It’s worse than that. There is going to be a lot of left vs centre sniping but the fact is that if you treat 2017 as an anomaly then the popular vote for right wing Labour, centre-left Labour and left wing Labour is about the same this century. On that basis it seems the Tories have a death grip on the country and food banks, detention centres and economic decline are going to be a fixture until the current crop of pensioners die out. It’s a very bleak picture and who’s in charge of the party and even whether or not it has a mass bass of engaged, progressive young activists seems to be almost irrelevant.

What has to be explained is 2017. I thought it was a sign of things to come but no. So what was it?

Corbyn was relatively fresh, bit of the usual honemoon period left. There was a large focus on May's problems and she was uncharismatic at best. Student hope on fees and managing to look like a home for remainers while Lib Dems were still in the post 2015 mire.

This election has Brexit as a huge element, but mainly it's a verdict on the two main opposition parties in England who have gone from regularly defeating Johnson in the HoC and holding him to account to granting him a five year free reign through lack of co-operation. Corbyn was totally unelectable among people who were looking for basically anyone bar Johnson. He was never meant to be leader and never, ever looked like one. People say it doesn't matter, that is patently untrue as the lessons of the past indicate. Unfortunately the post Milliband party framework is now under control of people who will look at everything through the eyes of zealots and not voters. Backers like Milne and Len McCluskey will not learn anything from this. A truely depressing prospect for anyone looking for them to raise the stakes.

This isn't a verdict on Johnson, it didn't have to be. Indeed how can it be? He did nothing and got away without ever having to present anything. All he's done is his usual schtick of blustered optimism without foundation and go to great lengths to avoid scrutiny. He was appointed and effectively campaigned for an election from the off. As if that wasn't a strong enough clue - he was then given first prize for any aspiring shyster, an election on his terms and at a time when his stock will never be higher. I still ask myself how the opposition ever thought that was a good idea. Each leader with totally hubristic notions of how they were somehow going to win out of it - only Sturgeon ever looked likely to have any success and that will be short lived. As much as I don't blame Scotland for wanting out, it would be a another disaster.

Johnson's problems begin now because what he has promised different parties is unachievable and incompatible in many cases. But at least he can no longer blame others even if that won't stop him trying. I said all this at the time and several times since. It gives me no pleasure because this is a total disaster for all but Johnson's main financial backers. Tories doing what they do, being pragmatic, ditching allies, not meaning a word of anything - because they understand that without power, you are a campaigner. If the fact that this platform couldn't succeed when up against one of the worst cabinets in UK political history, headed by a proven liar and total charlatan doesn't provoke more than just a change of deck chairs on this Titanic - it will be in opposition forever.

 

[TheDecameron]

Caroline Flint, voted with Boris Johnson to get Brexit done and her constituents boot her out and elect a Tory in her place. Brexit got her in the end.

 

[Cheese]

You look down on the people who were your core voters and treated them like idiots.

Quite. I'm sorry to say.

A sad outcome for the UK, but have the voters not reacted a bit like in the rust belt, thanks to which Trump was rather comfortably elected. It looks like it's not the stupid people who are to be blamed, it's the strategists of the left and, most of all, their elitism.

And this vote might be another proof that what is relevant in the end is not the emotional shitstorms written by students on social media, it's what lands in the ballot box.

 

[Del monaco]

They'll need a defibrillator to get Labour going again. What a crime and what arrogance to continue in post whist the party unravelled. This was a great opportunity that was thrown to the winds.Genuinely gutted. Feel sorry for McDonnel who I think is decent and sincere but Corbyn needs to go immediately and a leader with some gravitas needs to come forward and get hold of this.

 

[thebigfredc]

To the far left that dominate and bully this forum.

You got what you deserved. You call people racist, stupid, nasty and were so blinded by hate and envy you became and supported the same thing you purport to hate.

You lost because you didn't listen. You were right about everything. If anyone disagreed with your mantra they were spivs, racists etc. People tried to tell you that the leader was wrong, the economics were too radical.

You look down on the people who were your core voters and treated them like idiots. People are not stupid. They don't want full Marxism and they realise that your economics don't work. They went too far. They realised your brexit stance was disingenuous.

You would have won this election with a centre left leader.

No doubt you will spend the next 4 year's reflecting by blaming everyone else. But I hope you don't. You didn't lose because of media, Tories, brexit etc. You lost because your leader was poor. You lost because your economics don't and have never worked at the extremity you were proposing. You lost because your continuous self smugness on being morally superior on everything turns people off. People realise life is not that simple. You lost because you treated voters like idiots. You lost because you supported a toxic, racist and incompetent leader who attracted people with even more extreme views and ignored people telling you otherwise.

I hope for the sake of labour corbyn goes immediately and a more centre left leader regains the party. If you let him choose your successor then you will lose again in 5 years.

Seems to get to the heart of the matter.

 

[JonR]

Thank God for the sake of my children. Not a great night for me as I am sad we will definitely leave Europe but at least corbyn was stopped. Scotland may leave but they were going in either outcome.

To the far left that dominate and bully this forum.

You got what you deserved. You call people racist, stupid, nasty and were so blinded by hate and envy you became and supported the same thing you purport to hate.

You lost because you didn't listen. You were right about everything. If anyone disagreed with your mantra they were spivs, racists etc. People tried to tell you that the leader was wrong, the economics were too radical.

You look down on the people who were your core voters and treated them like idiots. People are not stupid. They don't want full Marxism and they realise that your economics don't work. They went too far. They realised your brexit stance was disingenuous.

You would have won this election with a centre left leader.

No doubt you will spend the next 4 year's reflecting by blaming everyone else. But I hope you don't. You didn't lose because of media, Tories, brexit etc. You lost because your leader was poor. You lost because your economics don't and have never worked at the extremity you were proposing. You lost because your continuous self smugness on being morally superior on everything turns people off. People realise life is not that simple. You lost because you treated voters like idiots. You lost because you supported a toxic, racist and incompetent leader who attracted people with even more extreme views and ignored people telling you otherwise.

I hope for the sake of labour corbyn goes immediately and a more centre left leader regains the party. If you let him choose your successor then you will lose again in 5 years.

Exactly this.