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Coronavirus - the new strain XII

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Ponty said:
The ‘youngsters’ need to understand that if they act like morons, they probably won’t die but they won’t have a future as there won’t be any economy left. They’ll also be the ones paying the bill.
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This is one of the reasons I think that, without a medical solution, it’s just impossible to manage COVID without creating a neo fascist oppressive police state, a firm hand to control the population. People want to play, and there’s no stopping them, the West is decadent, and decadence leads to the decline and fall of civilisations. Slowly, reluctantly I’m reaching the conclusion that the cure is possibly no better than the disease - very bad but in a different way.

Fast forward to 2024, and imagine that medical innovations are not effective enough. Imagine a fascist running for parliament with that sort of agenda . . . all through Europe, USA.

There you go, my dystopic prophesy, call me Cassandra.
 
matt j said:
I heard on local news that they were out drinking in fancy dress last night in Notts city centre, clowns...
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Clowns? Nah, most were nuns, vicars, centurions, gorillas, Spiderman, Cleopatra, Batman & Robin, 30s gangsters & molls, cowboys and French maids ;)
 
Tony L said:
Second wave set to be greater than government ‘worst case scenario’ SAGE warn (Independent).

Additional report from Cold War Steve (Twitter).
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Boris-HNH.jpg
 
so rumours this evening of Tier 4 lockdown next Weds, Johnson has a press conference on Monday 5pm
 
mandryka said:
This is one of the reasons I think that, without a medical solution, it’s just impossible to manage COVID without creating a neo fascist oppressive police state, a firm hand to control the population. People want to play, and there’s no stopping them, the West is decadent, and decadence leads to the decline and fall of civilisations. Slowly, reluctantly I’m reaching the conclusion that the cure is possibly no better than the disease - very bad but in a different way.

Fast forward to 2024, and imagine that medical innovations are not effective enough. Imagine a fascist running for parliament with that sort of agenda . . . all through Europe, USA.

There you go, my dystopic prophesy, call me Cassandra.
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Agree completely. We are simply not disciplined enough to deal with such a thing.
 
Ponty said:
The ‘youngsters’ need to understand that if they act like morons, they probably won’t die but they won’t have a future as there won’t be any economy left. They’ll also be the ones paying the bill.
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The economy IS gone for many people. I've been out of work since March, with a furlough of £500 a month, which just ended. At this rate I'll be lucky if work is back by next spring. I don't know a single person amongst family or friends who has heard of anyone dying from covid, apart from a few very elderly relatives who were on their way out and had it "added" to their cause of death.

I don't mean to offend anyone who's had a bad time from this, but i can understand why people are loosing patience with the government telling us what to do. I'm slipping in to that camp myself.
 
Ponty said:
Agree completely. We are simply not disciplined enough to deal with such a thing.
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“We” were, effectively, March through to June. I doubt the national character’s changed since then so it comes down to what we’re actually being asked to do, and our individual economic capacity to do it. Unless you see the ability to ignore bills, rent etc. as a matter of discipline
 
Seanm said:
“We” were, effectively, March through to June. I doubt the national character’s changed since then so it comes down to what we’re actually being asked to do, and our individual economic capacity to do it. Unless you see the ability to ignore bills, rent etc. as a matter of discipline
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Bothering to clean trolleys before you walk into the supermarket doesn’t cost anything. Staying at home when you’ve been told to self isolate when you are a family of 2 teachers on full pay doesn’t cost anything. It’s discipline. Absolutely, support those who need support, but if they breach the rules, claw it back. In the case of the teachers I know blatantly breaking the rules, I’d fire them.
 
Ponty said:
The ‘youngsters’ need to understand that if they act like morons, they probably won’t die but they won’t have a future as there won’t be any economy left. They’ll also be the ones paying the bill.
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On the other hand I think many youngsters feel that the oldsters have handed them a shit sandwich in terms of their financial future (student loans, house prices, low starting pay), and now they're being asked to take the economic and social hit again to protect the oldsters from COVID. It wouldn't surprise me if more than a few of them felt "f*ck the oldies" at this stage. That is the price of selling the younger generation down the river.
 
Seanm said:
“We” were, effectively, March through to June. . .our individual economic capacity .
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The problem isn’t lockdown i.e. March to June. Neither is the problem supporting people to isolate.

The problem is when you come out of lockdown. When people start to work, when they start to play. That’s when the disease starts to propagate, because of the nature of team working and the nature of leisure.

Test, trace and isolate is a tool for managing this. But we’ve seen that there comes a point when there’s too much COVID in the population for any test, trace and isolate system to be an effective control - that’s the situation all Europe is in now.

My suggestion is that short of effective medical solutions the only way to prevent this situation recurring is firm control of the population.
 
When you’re young the idea of mortality barely registers. You have so much life ahead of you and things are exciting and new. There is a tendency to be egocentric and less risk averse. I think this is the main issue. You don’t tend to see the impact of you’re actions easily. It’s not until you age that you become more aware, more empathetic. With most of these kids it will only become real if their friends become ill or,god forbid, their Nan dies. Until then they’ll take risks and have fun. Most are probably very anxious in these times and seek routine in a changing and stressful world. A minority are possibly uncaring, selfish and oppositional. But then again, I’ve never seen it as their fault.
 
sean99 said:
On the other hand I think many youngsters feel that the oldsters have handed them a shit sandwich in terms of their financial future (student loans, house prices, low starting pay), and now they're being asked to take the economic and social hit again to protect the oldsters from COVID. It wouldn't surprise me if more than a few of them felt "f*ck the oldies" at this stage. That is the price of selling the younger generation down the river.
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I sympathise with what you say, house prices, pay etc and even student loans because the latter shouldn’t exist at all. However, what the youngsters overlook and don’t want to know is that many ‘oldsters’ started working at age 16, some younger and not at the age of 24 or 25.

I had a ‘discussion’ with a 30+ year old at work a couple of years ago who complained about high property prices and that he thinks he won’t get a pension until he’s 70. Using myself as an example he refused to accept that by the time I’m 66 and get a pension I will have been working full-time for 50 years, by the time he is 70 he will have been working for 45 years. He also dismissed out of hand double digit mortgage interest rates + a lower property price being worth even a mention versus 2% mortgage rates + higher property prices. He couldn’t absorb the 2 together is what you pay.

As ever, there is more to these things than when people skim the surface.

After saying all that, youngsters have bad a bad deal from the tory govt and LibDems.

Anyway, I digress in reply to Sean there. The bottom line is an ideologically flawed Conservative govt is the very worst thing for the country during this pandemic, they are clueless, we will lose thousands of people over the winter when it finally arrives. A cross party coalition should have been set up at the start. That there was not is a huge error and will be costly.
 
Had we had the world beating test and trace system that we were promised our situation would be different. Instead we got a grubby money grabbing shambles, it was never overwhelmed it was always let down by private sector incompetence and government dogma that ignored the pleas from local authorities to use local knowledge till it was too late.
 
Johnson once again being forced to go with what the science and others had told him he needed to do, only too late.

This idiot has persistently put the libertarian instincts in his own party ahead of the science and has never dealt with internal, high profile blatent and stupid breaking of rules with any seriousness. The public always take their lead from what they see, rather than what they are told. The incredibly dumb warnings of closure, producing mass piss ups among the nation's younger brain donors are also highly irresponsible.

The economy will be hit far harder as a result of the prolonging of the agony and people have needlessly got ill and died.
 
SteveS1 said:
Johnson once again being forced to go with what the science and others had told him he needed to be, only too late.

This idiot has persistently put the libertarian instincts in his own party ahead of the science and has never dealt with internal, high profile blatent and stupid breaking of rules with any seriousness. The public always take their lead from what they see, rather than what they are told. The incredibly dumb warnings of closure, producing mass piss ups among the nation's younger brain donors are also incredibly irresponsible.

The economy will be hit far harder as a result of the prolonging of the agony and people have needlessly got ill and died.
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I don’t think he’s an idiot, or incompetent as I often think automatically. They are doing it intentionally. All part of the plan, imo. All they want to do is spread out the admissions and deaths, doing anything else is more costly in £££ and we can’t have that.
 
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