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Cars: Audi, BMW, Mercedes

Bas V said:
I really don't like the looks of that car too. Most Asian cars are just ugly as hell. I did see the new Tucson this summer (also available as PIH) and that looks good. But new so not in my budget. Sorry guys, I really don't consider cars other than Audi/BMW/MB/Volkswagen/Volvo. Either because they are too ugly, or because they are (still) too expensive (for example Tesla and Jaguar).
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Fair enough but in my defence, you *did* stress reliability. If that's your priority, German is not the place to look; Asian is.

[edit]

Just to clarify, I am not an Asian car fanboi, apart from four Swedish (Saab & Volvo) and one British car (Ford), all I have owned since the late 90s are German cars but happy to deal with reliability issues they all have.
 
From what I've seen of my own and other people's cars, the build quality of German products was excellent in the '80s and '90s, but has gone downhill since then. Real quality has been replaced with an orgy of cheap electronic gadgets, 95% of which are completely useless and will often malfunction. I also wonder if the compulsory turbo on all engines is not an additional weak spot. I had a 1981 320I, beautifully smooth 6-cylinder engine that never missed a beat. Now on a 1999 528i that is mechanically fantastic, only the plastic bits and electronic bits fail every now and then. And the leather of the upholstery is REAL, heavy leather, not that light stuff that feels like plastic that they use now.
 
Had a Volvo S60 - had turbo issues (going into limp mode) and then the electrical system packed up.
Ford Focus replaced it - crappy build and rust issues even on a youngish car. Then on occasion it wouldn't unlock and if it did let you in it may or may not have started. This was traced to an ingress of water into the Body Control Module which basically buggered the car up as well.
Honda Civic - absolutely no issues at all. The steering and chassis isn't as good as the Focus but everything else is way better.
 
PaulMB said:
From what I've seen of my own and other people's cars, the build quality of German products was excellent in the '80s and '90s, but has gone downhill since then.
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The rot set in when the accountants took over and the business model went from "well built but expensive cars for people who can afford that sort of thing" to "hey! cars for everyone" building to a budget at a time when expectations for gadgets and gizmos and imposed safety measures drive up basic cost.
 
Sorry. Wrong. If the premium makes hadn’t dropped the standards to suit the market, they’d be long gone by now.
Heavy, metal interiors are outlawed, and being a blunt, heavy weapon isn’t possible. Everyone complains that modern cars are too heavy as it is!

I’ve been in many, many cars over the years, and if I had to open the garage door to a mainstream Japanese or Korean car, I’d feel sad. And I’d have to squint so I can’t see it properly.
 
Tony Lockhart said:
Sorry. Wrong. If the premium makes hadn’t dropped the standards to suit the market, they’d be long gone by now.
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Hence why the accountants came in to make the business survive and went from being an engineering and designer-led activity.

Tony Lockhart said:
I’ve been in many, many cars over the years, and if I had to open the garage door to a mainstream Japanese or Korean car, I’d feel sad. And I’d have to squint so I can’t see it properly.
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Agreed. My A5 has not been the paragon of reliability and toughness in the two years I've had it. It's not exactly a car to engage the heart and soul but it makes me happier than having the automotive equivalent of white goods on the drive.

Don't fancy a GR Supra then?
 
Seeker_UK said:
The rot set in when the accountants took over and the business model went from "well built but expensive cars for people who can afford that sort of thing" to "hey! cars for everyone" building to a budget at a time when expectations for gadgets and gizmos and imposed safety measures drive up basic cost.
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Agree. Consider also that financialisation of the ownership model means they only really need it to be reliable during the warranty period (although many don’t even manage this), hence why the Germans have stuck to 3 years (if you’re lucky). The likes of Merc 124 build quality will never be seen again.
 
Seeker_UK said:
Don't fancy a GR Supra then?
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Totally unsuitable for us now. New Passat estate ordered, not holding my breath for it turning up.
Having to baton down the hatches for a while.
We looked at 540i Tourings and E43 Estates, but it would be a silly move for us right now.

I had a ride in @Suffolk Tony’s 540i Touring, and yes it’s lovely. A real turbine smooth engine, great chassis, a good looking car, lovely interior, and a black magic gearbox. Maybe some day…
 
I love these car threads and have asked and contributed to many over the years. My thoughts:

1/ Everyone recommends their car - they chose it after all
2/ Take reliability on any brand with a huge pinch of salt. Most (99.9%) cars are totally reliable and will not leave you stranded on the roadside but any of them can fail even Lexus
3/ Buy what you like and fancy. You have to drive it every day and look at it on the drive
 
cutting42 said:
I love these car threads and have asked and contributed to many over the years. My thoughts:

1/ Everyone recommends their car - they chose it after all
2/ Take reliability on any brand with a huge pinch of salt. Most (99.9%) cars are totally reliable and will not leave you stranded on the roadside but any of them can fail even Lexus
3/ Buy what you like and fancy. You have to drive it every day and look at it on the drive
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You forgot number 4/ showing a general disinterest in electric vehicles, which I for one find thorougly depressing. possibly related to the age of the contributors - far too set in their ways :-(
 
NeilR said:
You forgot number 4/ showing a general disinterest in electric vehicles, which I for one find thorougly depressing. possibly related to the age of the contributors - far too set in their ways :-(
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We are just a cross-section of society, and we are trying to be realistic about how affordable and suitable EVs are to us. The worst thing any of us can do is ditch a perfectly good ICE car in favour of an EV and then realise we’ve made a mistake. I’d guess that almost all of us here who are due to replace our current cars in three to five years will go down the EV route. Simple as that.
 
Tony Lockhart said:
We are just a cross-section of society, and we are trying to be realistic about how affordable and suitable EVs are to us. The worst thing any of us can do is ditch a perfectly good ICE car in favour of an EV and then realise we’ve made a mistake. I’d guess that almost all of us here who are due to replace our current cars in three to five years will go down the EV route. Simple as that.
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I would say the PFM demographic has a much higher disposable income than average and most will own their own houses so can install home chargers. The perfect situation. If the PFM demographic won't take the lead on this, then who will? we can't just leave everything to the younger generation.

I had this argument with my wife for a number of years and she has now finally relented and we bought an EV. Now she wishes we did it earlier.
 
cutting42 said:
I love these car threads and have asked and contributed to many over the years. My thoughts:

1/ Everyone recommends their car - they chose it after all
2/ Take reliability on any brand with a huge pinch of salt. Most (99.9%) cars are totally reliable and will not leave you stranded on the roadside but any of them can fail even Lexus
3/ Buy what you like and fancy. You have to drive it every day and look at it on the drive
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1 / I haven't recommended my car. Far from it. o_O
2 / JD Power says otherwise. And besides, it's not just about reliability but what support you get when it does go wrong. My A5 has been pretty poor but Audi's support under warranty has been faultless.
3 / This but I'd modify it with 'and what you can afford to run'.
 
@NeilR I totally feel you. I would never consider buying a new fossil fuel car. My current V60 pih seemed the perfect solution on the road to an EV. I just need a car for a few years untill I can afford a decent EV. I would love to drive a Polestar or something alike. I could stretch for a 2014 Tesla S, but how reliable will that be? Tesla’s service is horrible so I’ve heard…
 
Bas V said:
Polestar
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have they sorted out the sw problems on their car yet?

I came so close to buying a polestar breathed on XC60 but the dealer experience was so poor, I said fvck it and went back to Porsche, where my dealer is brilliant
 
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