Cars: Audi, BMW, Mercedes

[PaulMB]

I sometimes wonder about the pressure to buy a hybrid or electric car. How much is genuine concern for the environment, how much is it to make people buy a new car? A good car from, say, 1995 to 2005 already has electronic fuel injection and a catalytic converter. If annual mileage is not enormous, will that car pollute more than throwing it away, which involves consumption of energy and waste, buying a new car which has to be built using new materials of all kinds and using energy of various kinds (steel production, plastics made from petroleum, electrical energy) and then there is the problem of batteries and all the materials they require and what will happen to them when they die. So, perhaps, for someone doing 5,000 to 10,000 kilometers per year, perhaps keeping a 1997 Mercedes 124 (which someone mentioned up-thread) might be more environment-friendly than throwing it away and buying a new equivalent hybrid Mercedes.

 

[PaulMB]

A lot cheaper, too!

 

[Rockmeister]

A quick search indicates that the model S is the most unreliable car on the market. Sorry, I’ll have to pass on that one then.

I'm really confused now. So reliability is important but you won't buy a reliable car? The top 6 most reliable cars are all Japanese, but you think they all look horrible. However you would buy anything less reliable from Germany because the 'look better'? Is that a good summary?
OK. So you want a German petrol engine. That's fine then I think. I'd suggest you then need to look locally for which make has the dealer/service center with the best reputation, because you will be visiting it more than once a year.
I have 7 mercs now. I no longer buy new ones. Near me is an excellent independant garage who are Merc experts, so older Mercs are perfect. New ones are NOT reliable, not well made and the garages are terrible unless you only value a decent quality of coffee and a nice fake leather seat.

Of all of the germans, BMW are the most reliable by some way. That's where I would put my money if i were you. Maybe a 3 series estate.
Fine car.

 

[al2002]

Reliability ratings, summarised from a US consumer magazine:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...lity-survey-2021-cars-trucks-suvs/6337648002/

Porsche is the only European marque in the top ten.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Lexus has a strong presence at the lower end of this chart

https://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100/

 

[Seeker_UK]

Lexus has a strong presence at the lower end of this chart

https://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100/

The IS doesn't surprise me at all - just look at how many problems they had with the poorly-fitting heads in the diesel lump they used.

 

[Woodface]

I quite like the idea of a new motor but not really driving enough to justify it, £300-400 per month to just have something with a few more gadgets seems a bit daft.

Current car is nearly 5 years old, done just under 50,000 miles & is paid off. Not having a car payment is rather nice.

 

[Martin M]

you can read horror stories on the web about every car. I frequent the huge german motor talk c class forum, I don’t read many posts about problems with the hybrid W205.

I had a C350e for 3 years. Odd car. Very strange breaking and acceleration. Sometimes gentle, sometimes fierce. Never could predicts which. Handling was rather strange with the battery slung over the back. The software had a mind of its own e.g the boot opened when it fancied. Reliability so-so. Electric only mileage minimal. Very comfortable though. Had a go a C300de and that seemed similar odd. However, the mild hybrid C300 coupe is a great machine. Good handing, lovely suspension set up. Nice looking. Good fuel efficiency and even more comfy.

 

[lordsummit]

Skoda Superb. Their dealers are usually really good. Had a good number of Skodas and always found them very reliable.

 

[clivem2]

Reliability ratings, summarised from a US consumer magazine:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...lity-survey-2021-cars-trucks-suvs/6337648002/

Porsche is the only European marque in the top ten.

When Porsches are with the dealer they empty your bank account so I’d hope they service the thing properly so it’s at least reliable.

 

[Bas V]

I'm really confused now. So reliability is important but you won't buy a reliable car? The top 6 most reliable cars are all Japanese, but you think they all look horrible. However you would buy anything less reliable from Germany because the 'look better'? Is that a good summary?
OK. So you want a German petrol engine. That's fine then I think. I'd suggest you then need to look locally for which make has the dealer/service center with the best reputation, because you will be visiting it more than once a year.
I have 7 mercs now. I no longer buy new ones. Near me is an excellent independant garage who are Merc experts, so older Mercs are perfect. New ones are NOT reliable, not well made and the garages are terrible unless you only value a decent quality of coffee and a nice fake leather seat.

Of all of the germans, BMW are the most reliable by some way. That's where I would put my money if i were you. Maybe a 3 series estate.
Fine car.

I think I’m not alone in disliking Asian cars. It’s always the same on PFM: one asks for advice on A/B/c and people suggest X/Y/Z. And then THEY get confused?!

Anyway, I have read most of the times MB are quite okay. Not so much information about Audi or BMW. But it seems to come down to personal choice and plain luck after that.

 

[Bas V]

I had a C350e for 3 years. Odd car. Very strange breaking and acceleration. Sometimes gentle, sometimes fierce. Never could predicts which. Handling was rather strange with the battery slung over the back. The software had a mind of its own e.g the boot opened when it fancied. Reliability so-so. Electric only mileage minimal. Very comfortable though. Had a go a C300de and that seemed similar odd. However, the mild hybrid C300 coupe is a great machine. Good handing, lovely suspension set up. Nice looking. Good fuel efficiency and even more comfy.

Thanks, that’s helpful! Did it ever let you down?

 

[Martin M]

Thanks, that’s helpful! Did it ever let you down?

Sort of. It went in for a fix for an issue (I thought the car was running rich) and the M-B dealer wouldn't give me the car back as it was dangerous (to had a petrol leak). Ended up in their A200 for a couple of days and then the company's rather lairy Audi A3 thing (grim IMO) for a couple of weeks. I do like the C300 though.

 

[gintonic]

When Porsches are with the dealer they empty your bank account so I’d hope they service the thing properly so it’s at least reliable.

err not IME and I'm on my 4th dealer supported pork. My 911 cost £480 for a service earlier this year and now won't need another for 2 years. Full set of tyres was £200 cheaper through the dealer Inc. any other outlet I could find anywhere.

None of this is wallet emptying imo.

I assume your Porsche ownership experience supports your assertion

 

[clivem2]

err not IME and I'm on my 4th dealer supported pork. My 911 cost £480 for a service earlier this year and now won't need another for 2 years. Full set of tyres was £200 cheaper through the dealer Inc. any other outlet I could find anywhere.

None of this is wallet emptying imo.

I assume your Porsche ownership experience supports your assertion

I got very close to buying one but in the end there was a size issue I couldn’t get around. I must say an OPC full service for £480 is less than expected, especially if it includes carbon ceramic brakes.

 

[gintonic]

especially if it includes carbon ceramic brakes.

eh? are you mad? I am sorry but that is a truly ridiculous statement.

it was a bog standard service on my 911, brakes of course would add more.

 

[Seeker_UK]

I got very close to buying one but in the end there was a size issue I couldn’t get around. I must say an OPC full service for £480 is less than expected, especially if it includes carbon ceramic brakes.

If carbon ceramics need replacing before 70k miles, I'd be looking at a warranty claim.

 

[clivem2]

eh? are you mad? I am sorry but that is a truly ridiculous statement.

it was a bog standard service on my 911, brakes of course would add more.

Oh you’re too easy to wind up. Btw being serious here’s a Macan 4 year bill:
Major service £560.00
PDK gearbox oil change £481.80
Spark plug change £315.80
Air filter change £171.92
Brake fluid change £114.00
Air con service £99.00
MOT £54.00
Total £1,796.52

 

[Ponty]

err not IME and I'm on my 4th dealer supported pork. My 911 cost £480 for a service earlier this year and now won't need another for 2 years. Full set of tyres was £200 cheaper through the dealer Inc. any other outlet I could find anywhere.

None of this is wallet emptying imo.

I assume your Porsche ownership experience supports your assertion

In fairness, my Porsche cost zero in servicing and repairs over 2 years. Ordered brand new and sold the day before its 2nd birthday.

 

[Ponty]

Oh you’re too easy to wind up. Btw being serious here’s a Macan 4 year bill:
Major service £560.00
PDK gearbox oil change £481.80
Spark plug change £315.80
Air filter change £171.92
Brake fluid change £114.00
Air con service £99.00
MOT £54.00
Total £1,796.52

Are the spark plugs and air filter an engine out job?!