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Cars: Audi, BMW, Mercedes

SteveG said:
I've gone the other way - used to mainly have Honda's (and still do for motorbikes) but haven't had one of those for a few years now. They were all (a couple of Accords, a couple of Jazz's and a a Civic) great for reliability but the Mercedes are much nicer to drive and own in my experience.

The best way to appreciate the reliability of any of the German or Japanese brands is to own a Ford for a while. We've had a few, most with serious reliability issues (my sons Fiesta, while nice to drive, is on its 3rd gearbox and our V6 Mondeo was an absolute nightmare - although also a nice car to drive) although the biggest difference is just how bad the Ford dealers are (and I've tried a few).

I've never owned a Volvo though although I did get close to picking a 240 Estate as a company car many, many years ago. I was probably put off them by driving a friends 340 a few times - that was truly awful.
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Yep, Mercs do drive nicely, no question. When I was doing big miles (35K+ a year), a BMW 7 Series was my weapon of choice (until I moved to the sticks, then it was Land Cruiser). The 7 was a magnificent car, except the engine needed replacing at 60K (BMW warranty, thankfully). No way would I have one out of warranty. Nowadays, my Subaru is the best possible car for my needs, irrespective of budget. I’ve never, ever, had a single problem with Toyota and Subaru over 240K miles. New VW California (£60K+), all sorts of problems with them, disgraceful really.
 
Honda are probably the best for reliability, Accord is a nice car but a bit dull & heavy. Had two BMWs, really like the 5 series, auto box is great, very comfortable & look nice.
 
My old LS V8 did me proud for 140K miles over 10 years, I sold it to a friend earlier this year for a decent price, 16 years old, 200K miles and cost me nothing other than oil/tyres/independent service - I never thought of it as a Toyota in a posh frock in truth, more like an over engineered S class with the reliability factor - still have a V8 petrol but I do miss it
 
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I’d go for a Korean EV if it was me. German fossil cars are starting to become rather old fashioned with all of the new EV kids on the block.

Disclaimer: i own a newish C class diesel which is nice enough but i am thinking of getting rid of it because EVs are far better to drive in my opinion. My wife’s Jaguar I-Pace is just lovely.
 
Ponty said:
Yep, Mercs do drive nicely, no question. When I was doing big miles (35K+ a year), a BMW 7 Series was my weapon of choice (until I moved to the sticks, then it was Land Cruiser). The 7 was a magnificent car, except the engine needed replacing at 60K (BMW warranty, thankfully). No way would I have one out of warranty. Nowadays, my Subaru is the best possible car for my needs, irrespective of budget. I’ve never, ever, had a single problem with Toyota and Subaru over 240K miles. New VW California (£60K+), all sorts of problems with them, disgraceful really.
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My old Subaru Outback was my most enjoyable driving experience until the recent RS7 - beautiful drive when I was putting in ridiculous mileage - reliable too
 
I treated myself to a brand new top-of-the-line BMW 3-series Touring in 2013 to celebrate a milestone year. It's my first European car, after a succession of Japanese cars. It has just clocked over 145,000 km, and has not suffered any breakdowns. It's had its gearbox replaced under warranty four years in due to faulty synchro rings on the 1->2 shift. More recently, a bunch of oil gaskets were replaced at my cost because the engine was starting to weep oil. However, I'm anxious about the water-pump, which is electrically driven and known to fail suddenly anytime after 100,000 km. I've priced the parts, and they are not cheap - let alone the labour charges.

Whilst I have nothing against BMW, I don't think I'll buy another. The total experience vs cost equation is not as favourable to me as Japanese. The equation might be different if I lived in the US or even the UK, where the price difference is smaller. I anticipate my next car, due within the next two years, is likely to be Japanese. I tend to buy new and keep cars for at least 10 years, so reliability and durability are important to me.
 
tqineil said:
My old Subaru Outback was my most enjoyable driving experience until the recent RS7 - beautiful drive when I was putting in ridiculous mileage - reliable too
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Yes, the Audis drive very well. My wife had an Allroad for a couple of years. Lovely car for distance but hopeless in the snow compared to the Subarus.
 
Some background then. Been driving company cars till 2013. Then a 2006 V70 D5 that has had no major issues (it’s still in the family with over 400K kms). Since 2017 I drive a 2014 V60 D6 PIH and I had planned to drive it untill nice EV’s (eg Tesla or any of the German brands) enter the s/hand market. But as said, it has to go. I have two kids (7&12) so do need some space. The V60 is the minimum. I am looking for an estate, automatic and I prefer petrol. I have been looking at other PIH’s (Passat GTE or MB C350e) but am a bit worried about their reliability after reading on the internet. Budget is around 20-25K which forces me to look at models from 2016-2018.

I do read a lot of positive remarks about MB. Unfortunately that’s the car my wife likes least. She prefers the A4, but the TFSI engines don’t seem without faults…
 
Ponty said:
Yes, the Audis drive very well. My wife had an Allroad for a couple of years. Lovely car for distance but hopeless in the snow compared to the Subarus.
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so far (4 months in) the Audi has to prove itself, the Scooby was bomb proof & was never troubled by extreme weather
 
Last few years I've had 3 Volvos (two V70s and an S90), Subaru Legacy, Merc C200 and now an Audi A6 45 Quattro. Of them all I loved the V90 the best (apart from its handling). The Legacy was wonderful to drive but very fragile - the bulletproof reputation wasn't there for me and I got rid of it after 18k miles. The Merc C200 was lovely and extremely economical for a reasonably fast petrol (got 50mpg on long trips) - was going to upgrade to an E-Class until I got a great lease deal with Audi. My Audi A6 has had 3 recalls (one delaying initial delivery by 1 month), it's only done 4000 miles in the 22 months I've had it, but has needed over £700 in standard servicing costs. It's more than quick enough for me (0-60mph in 6s) and economical (42 mpg on a trip from Devon to Reading) but somehow unlovable - part of that is because my Audi dealership (Reading) is arrogant and messes customers about. Also they tried to foist a £120 air conditioning service on me yesterday when I went in for latest recall! Will probably looking at Toyota/Lexus for the next car - at my age peace of mind is important.
 
I'm a big fan of Scoobs, even if they seem to have lost some of their WRC heritage. The next long overdue, and undoubtedly last WRX STI is destined to be a collectable in the next age of EVs.
 
I've owned all three at one point; I now have a 2018 Accord. It has cost me zero in repairs and is MUCH less expensive to maintain, absent a manufacturer covering the maintenance. It's also MUCH cheaper to operate - it's averaging 35 mpg and uses regular unleaded, as opposed to premium.

@James - not sure how the gearbox failing/being replaced doesn't count as a "breakdown." ;)

When I did my own work on them, whether Audi, BMW, or Merc, I'd take them to a local shop when I ran into something that I either couldn't or didn't want to do on my own, and I'd chat with the folks there. All three have their gremlins, so pick the one you're most comfortable with. And if buying new, warranty should cover pretty much anything that does fail. And, unfortunately, something will . . .
 
tqineil said:
Not considered a Lexus - they’re generally considered the best?
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Smashing cars, comfortable, reliable, powerful enough form most and some of the best aftersales support you can find. The CVT can be a deal-breaker, tho'. An IS300h is worth a test drive.
 
In my opinion reliability is a gamble. Pick a car you like. I have had Fords for 20 years covering 500k miles and the only problem has been a broken spring on the front suspension.
 
Bob Edwards said:
@James - not sure how the gearbox failing/being replaced doesn't count as a "breakdown." ;)
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The gearbox could be used just fine, but shifting from first to second gear above 4,500 rpm tends to get crunchy. It didn't leave me stranded anywhere so not a breakdown as such.
 
Reliability is indeed a gamble. You are a samplke size of one, the difference between major brands is not great enough to see it on a sample of one. I currently have an Audi A5. 11 years old, 3 electrical faults thjs year. I have had 2 jaguars, ok. Before that a Mondeo. 160,000 indestructible miles. German reliability? Yeah, right.
 
James said:
The gearbox could be used just fine, but shifting from first to second gear above 4,500 rpm tends to get crunchy. It didn't leave me stranded anywhere so not a breakdown as such.
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Ah! Gotcha - that makes sense. Didn't understand that from your post.
 
Bought a 2013 Mondeo 2.0 tdci 3 years ago for £6000.
I have put 60000 miles since and is now 120000 miles trouble free.
Ok it's not a BMW or Merc but does the job and saves me lots of money for other things which I consider more important in my life.
 
Indeed, sample size of one is not of much use. My 6 year old Octavia has had nothing go wrong at all.

JD power is probably the best gauge of general reliability with a good sample size...you might not be thinking about BMW anymore if you have not seen this - scroll down for the manufacturer's overall graph:

https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-vehicle-dependability-study

https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2018-uk-vehicle-dependability-study

https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2017-uk-vehicle-dependability-study

https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/used-cars/157/most-reliable-cars
 
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