Brexit: give me a positive effect (2022 remastered edition) II

[SteveS1]

You've got the orders of magnitude reversed. The sums recovered in the Qatar/Morocco scandal in Brussels (1.5 M€) are small potatoes compared to the sums wasted in the UK's COVID PPE scandals (10s-100s millions, in some cases billions misappropriated). Arrests have been made in Brussels: several MEPs/former MEPs/staffers, including one VP have been charged and are in jail. Contrast and compare.

Aw details!

It's kind of Rich to troll the UK from his EU residence, maybe he's comparing pre-Johnson levels of corruption and grift. I think he needs to return to the UK and live the true Brexit dream.

 

[richardg]

150K? Christ, our lot wouldn't even get out of bed for that.

More whataboutery!

 

[ff1d1l]

More whataboutery!

Good solid BRITISH whataboutery, though, not the effete EU version.

 

[richardg]

Good solid BRITISH whataboutery, though, not the effete EU version.

The Kaili case could be like the Saville case, with more whistleblowers finding the nerve to come out. The tip of the iceberg!

I'm looking forward to a repeat of the Santer Commission, where everyone just fvcks off in shame, leaving the EU without a rudder.

 

[PsB]

The Kaili case could be like the Saville case, with more whistleblowers finding the nerve to come out. The tip of the iceberg!

I'm looking forward to a repeat of the Santer Commission, where everyone just fvcks off in shame, leaving the EU without a rudder.

The Santer Commission had to resign as the European Parliament (the one Brexiters think is toothless) was threatening a vote of no confidence. Again, contrast and compare.

The EU member states designated another EC fairly promptly, so the “no rudder” bit must be something you dreamt up.

 

[ff1d1l]

The Kaili case could be like the Saville case, with more whistleblowers finding the nerve to come out. The tip of the iceberg!

I'm looking forward to a repeat of the Santer Commission, where everyone just fvcks off in shame, leaving the EU without a rudder.

She sexually abused children in hospital and indulged in a bit of necrophilia on the side?
Or are you indulging in tasteless false equivalence?

 

[richardg]

She sexually abused children in hospital and indulged in a bit of necrophilia on the side?
Or are you indulging in tasteless false equivalence?

No. It's about how more people find the courage to come out against wrong once one person does it.

 

[richardg]

The Santer Commission had to resign as the European Parliament (the one Brexiters think is toothless) was threatening a vote of no confidence. Again, contrast and compare.

The EU member states designated another EC fairly promptly, so the “no rudder” bit must be something you dreamt up.

You cannot ever see the bad. One of them ended up with a criminal record.

All denial from you. EU good. Always good. Only good.

There's a 40 billion euro lobbying racket going on there. Only in USA is it bigger / worse.

Lobbying good. Always good. Only good.

 

[Nick_G]

You cannot ever see the bad. One of them ended up with a criminal record.

All denial from you. EU good. Always good. Only good.

There's a 40 billion euro lobbying racket going on there. Only in USA is it bigger / worse.

Lobbying good. Always good. Only good.

Except as I pointed out many of the Tories have been up to far worse, and there has been little or no apparent consequences for them. Compare and contrast with the accountability in the EU parliament.

 

[SteveS1]

You cannot ever see the bad. One of them ended up with a criminal record.

All denial from you. EU good. Always good. Only good.

There's a 40 billion euro lobbying racket going on there. Only in USA is it bigger / worse.

Lobbying good. Always good. Only good.

Love it. Nobody is saying any form or amount of dishonesty is "good".

You started this with one of your usual little dips being only being interested in EU 'bad'. When it was pointed out that both the quantum and scale of what you were busy pointing at was of a different order to that we have seen recently - you described it as "whataboutery". If your plan was that Brexit would help us get away from this sort of corruption, you have to admit it's going the other way.

 

[Brian]

Trouble is, I can never see us going back. We had the best deal of the richer members - with the rebate and keeping the £. We’d get neither of these advantages back if we re-joined.

Even if it was decided to hold a referendum in the future about re-joining, would enough of the country be prepared to join on terms that weren’t as good as when we left , and to lose the pound. Can’t see it happening.

So ultimately we have to live with the outcome and move on (difficult as that may be ).

Exactly my point since the referendum.

I doubt we will ever rejoin. Once the UK gets shot of the tories I’m hopeful we will see better relations with the EU bloc and that will be sufficient as it will result in a better trading situation which is what we need.

I agree with you, but it's been the case for many years that the modern world favours nations that are either very large or part of something large. The terms offered will always have to be balanced with how well the unchained Britannia is doing - see current signs as an indicator.

But your central point stands. Not only did we throw away future opportunities, reduce person freedoms and destroy existing business and trade, much of it developed because of our membership, we also enjoyed terms that were the envy of others. A tragically self destructive act borne of a lethal cocktail of monied people who benefit from chaos, historical hubris and lies requiring then unprovable negatives feeding a totally unfounded optimism.* Having little soundbites proved more powerful than even modestly detailed analysis, so much for 'experts' eh? We showed 'em.

* see results of previous boosterism from same individual.

Ah. You therefore agree with me, too.

Accepting the outcome and getting on with it has been my (unpopular) position since the result of referendum became known.

 

[TheDecameron]

No. It's about how more people find the courage to come out against wrong once one person does it.

Comes across as pfm’s Jonathan Aitken with the simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of fair play. Votes Brexit then ups skirts to move his money interests inside the EU while still complaining about the EU- a la Mogg.

Brexit Island is sinking under the incompetence, grift and lies of its Brexit championing government. The rest of us actually have to live in it and pay for it, so being lectured from inside the EU about whataboutery in the system we live under rings a bit hollow.

 

[eternumviti]

I do hope it's not proving too tough for you, Dec. Drop me a pm if you're in trouble, I might have a spare fiver kicking about.

 

[PsB]

You cannot ever see the bad. One of them ended up with a criminal record.

All denial from you. EU good. Always good. Only good.

There's a 40 billion euro lobbying racket going on there. Only in USA is it bigger / worse.

Lobbying good. Always good. Only good.

FAOD, I’ve never said “all EU good”. There have been numerous examples of graft and corruption in the EU (some of it in Brussels, a lot within member states with people finding ingenious ways to misappropriate EU funds). The Kiali example is a juicy one, but you have to admit that bringing it up in a Benefits of Brexit thread, after fraud scandals like Baroness Mone’s duff PPE, Baroness Harding‘s track & trace wheeze, Matt Hancock’s pub mate suddenly discovering a vocation in medical equipment, etc. cost the UK (a much smaller economy) tens of billions in pure waste is not your brightest idea on the communications front.

Also: Mone was only investigated because of a vigorous campaign by the few remaining opposition media in the UK, and is now being set up as the preferred scapegoat presumably to allow better connected grandees to slink away. Nobody’s been charged, let alone arrested or jailed.

 

[Colin L]

I do hope it's not proving too tough for you, Dec. Drop me a pm if you're in trouble, I might have a spare fiver kicking about.

It seems in your world everybody’s position is based on how it affects their personal finances. I’m sure you do have a few bob knocking around.

Others are more concerned about how those less well off are affected and the well-being of the country and society generally.

 

[ff1d1l]

It seems in your world everybody’s position is based on how it affects their personal finances. I’m sure you do have a few bob knocking around.

Others are more concerned about how those less well off are affected and the well-being of the country and society generally.

But, BUT, the poor African farmers, the poor Greek shipowners ...

 

[eternumviti]

It seems in your world everybody’s position is based on how it affects their personal finances. I’m sure you do have a few bob knocking around.

Others are more concerned about how those less well off are affected and the well-being of the country and society generally.

The Dec was worrying about 'having to pay for it', poor flower, not me. I was only offering him my modest help. I can't afford much. We could have a whip round?

 

[TheDecameron]

We live in a country where the proponents of Brexit including two former Conservative Prime Ministers and several of their ministers and courtiers have literally thieved or attempted to thieve from the public purse on a grand scale. Now I know the proponent of the whataboutery argument has struggled publicly before with numeracy issues but it remains disingenuous to suggest calling out our own elected grifters in Westminster is whataboutism. They are after all grifting or attempting to grift from those of us actually paying tax in the U.K.

 

[richardg]

We live in a country where the proponents of Brexit including two former Conservative Prime Ministers and several of their ministers and courtiers have literally thieved or attempted to thieve from the public purse on a grand scale. Now I know the proponent of the whataboutery argument has struggled publicly before with numeracy issues but it remains disingenuous to suggest calling out our own elected grifters in Westminster is whataboutism. They are after all grifting or attempting to grift from those of us actually paying tax in the U.K.

I'm all for it. The Tory party disgusts me. But it's not really a decent defense to the argument that there is even more corruption in the EU. The lobbying industry in Brussels is 20 times bigger than the one in London.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

We live in a country where the proponents of Brexit including two former Conservative Prime Ministers and several of their ministers and courtiers have literally thieved or attempted to thieve from the public purse on a grand scale. Now I know the proponent of the whataboutery argument has struggled publicly before with numeracy issues but it remains disingenuous to suggest calling out our own elected grifters in Westminster is whataboutism. They are after all grifting or attempting to grift from those of us actually paying tax in the U.K.

I’m also interested that the EU has dealt with corruption involving Qatar almost before the dust has settled, whereas we (we can always vote them out) are still waiting for any suggestion of consequences for our corrupt bunch. Even Mone isn’t likely to face much by way of sanctions, is she?