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Brexit: give me a positive effect (2022 remastered edition) II

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I think in order to decide whether the E.U. is an advantage or not, it might help to go back to basics and ask ‘what is a country for?’ The answer to that may help decide whether ever closer union of countries is fundamentally desirable, or conceptually undesirable.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I think in order to decide whether the E.U. is an advantage or not, it might help to go back to basics and ask ‘what is a country for?’ The answer to that may help decide whether ever closer union of countries is fundamentally desirable, or conceptually undesirable.
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The four freedoms are a good start.
The last two decades have shown more of their delivery, or potential for delivery, coming from EU laws and membership than our own government.
 
Yebbut, at the risk of sounding a bit Brexity, you can’t choose to support an external proxy government just because you don’t like your domestic one. But I take your point.
 
eternumviti said:
We could have had most or all of the advantages without the EU. The deliberate and compulsory conflation of a regional free trade arrangement with a political ideology.
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A regional trade agreement and open markets require alignment of standards. Rejoining the single market or customs union will require this.
The far-right refusal to accept this reality has impoverished the nation.
You are an apologist for the worst kind of right-wing "libertarian" parasites that see the citizens of the UK and our social institutions as assets to be stripped.
Your willingness to sacrifice the country for a mirage of "sovereignty" is contemptible.
 
ff1d1l said:
The advantage is the EU.
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I never had you down as a comedian, though I accept your right to try to be one.

ff1d1l said:
The four freedoms are a good start.
The last two decades have shown more of their delivery, or potential for delivery, coming from EU laws and membership than our own government.
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I love the 'potential for delivery' qualification. In its own way, a comedy classic.

ff1d1l said:
I'm a pragmatist, so I can.
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Which ever so slightly exposes an agenda.
 
Agenduh, as in-

Remainer Plots
Enemies of the People
Punishment beatings from the EU prison camp guards
They hate us for standing up to them
Remainer plot to bring down Boris (for lying and cheating btw)
Gary Linaker and that woman off Dragons Den tryin to reverse Brexit


As with Trump, QAnon, religious fundamentalists and the far right:

https://nottingham-repository.worktribe.com/index.php/output/7505309/examining-the-links-between-conspiracy-beliefs-and-the-eu-brexit-referendum-vote-in-the-uk-evidence-from-a-twowave-survey

The quality of paranoia is not strained.
 
Colin L said:
A regional trade agreement and open markets require alignment of standards. Rejoining the single market or customs union will require this.
The far-right refusal to accept this reality has impoverished the nation.
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Aligned standards don't require political union. We've been here before.

I don't see how being opposed to the EU's empire-building ideology constitutes 'far-rightedness'. There was a time when the Bennite wing of the Labour party opposed membership of the EEC for exactly the same reasons as I do now.

Colin L said:
You are an apologist for the worst kind of right-wing "libertarian" parasites that see the citizens of the UK and our social institutions as assets to be stripped.
Your willingness to sacrifice the country for a mirage of "sovereignty" is contemptible.
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It's no different from me accusing you of being an apologist for the global corporate parasites which lobby the unelected, unaccountable EU in their thousands to frame laws and regulations which favour big corporate power over the choice and freedom of individuals. We might have a bunch of shits in government right now, but our cranky old system is doing its thing. Two or three years ago you were all whining that the tories would be impossible to move out of power. Well, watch this space.
 
Lobbying, delighted you raised it.

Former Prime Minister David Cameron lobbying for soon to be bankrupt Greenshill Capital- to screw emergency loans from the public purse then to introduce a Ponzi scheme, taking over the entire NHS payroll. He would have pocketed tens of millions and led the health service to financial disaster.

Also let’s not forget the disgusting grifter Owen Paterson, MP by day, shill for Randox by night- trousering cash for massive govt contracts but the best was yet to come. The railhead of all corruption Boris Johnson- whipping his MPs to save the bent Paterson from expulsion.

As ever with EV, the finger points elsewhere, anywhere but at his own rotten party.
 
Yes, and look what happened, and what is happening. Cameron is persona non grata, Paterson is gone, Johnson is gone, and soon the rest of them will be gone too.
 
eternumviti said:
Yes, and look what happened, and what is happening. Cameron is persona non grata, Paterson is gone, Johnson is gone, and soon the rest of them will be gone too.
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Yes of course and next, the new crop will be discovered. They’re even talking about bringing the crook in chief back- cos he wins us elections. Once a government surrenders the country’s reputation for probity and the rule of law, it’s down the sewer after that. There’s quite a bit more damage to do of course. Good luck for the future.
 
TheDecameron said:
Yes of course and next, the new crop will be discovered. They’re even talking about bringing the crook in chief back- cos he wins us elections. Once a government surrenders the country’s reputation for probity and the rule of law, it’s down the sewer after that. There’s quite a bit more damage to do of course. Good luck for the future.
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Of course all of this: lying to the queen, illegal prorogation of parliament, using the Good Friday agreement as a weapon, corrupt PPE deals, weaponising the Met, the inhumane Rwanda asylum policy, destroying the NHS etc etc, and the bastards are still in power. Ten, twenty years ago, any one of these things would have meant mass resignations and probably a change of government pretty quickly. Not now though, in this new age where ignorance, hate and stupidity are not seen as a bad thing. It just goes to show that with the Tories post-Brexit there is no political accountability at all.
 
TheDecameron said:
Lobbying, delighted you raised it.

Former Prime Minister David Cameron lobbying for soon to be bankrupt Greenshill Capital- to screw emergency loans from the public purse then to introduce a Ponzi scheme, taking over the entire NHS payroll. He would have pocketed tens of millions and led the health service to financial disaster.

Also let’s not forget the disgusting grifter Owen Paterson, MP by day, shill for Randox by night- trousering cash for massive govt contracts but the best was yet to come. The railhead of all corruption Boris Johnson- whipping his MPs to save the bent Paterson from expulsion.

As ever with EV, the finger points elsewhere, anywhere but at his own rotten party.
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Whataboutery. Whilst the conservative party is full of disgusting spivs, it is small potatoes compared to the enormous lobbying sleaze that goes on in Brussels. There is even a cracking story going on right now where one top official from European parliament has been found with 150k cash in her apartment, while her boyfriend tries to take one for the team to clear her name. Unfortunately her father had also been arrested with 600k in a suitcase. Google Kaili Giorgi Brussels bribery.

Very soon the Westminster spivs will be gone. But the ones in Brussels are there full-time.
 
richardg said:
Whataboutery. Whilst the conservative party is full of disgusting spivs, it is small potatoes compared to the enormous lobbying sleaze that goes on in Brussels. There is even a cracking story going on right now where one top official from European parliament has been found with 150k cash in her apartment, while her boyfriend tries to take one for the team to clear her name. Unfortunately her father had also been arrested with 600k in a suitcase. Google Kaili Giorgi Brussels bribery.

Very soon the Westminster spivs will be gone. But the ones in Brussels are there full-time.
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You've got the orders of magnitude reversed. The sums recovered in the Qatar/Morocco scandal in Brussels (1.5 M€) are small potatoes compared to the sums wasted in the UK's COVID PPE scandals (10s-100s millions, in some cases billions misappropriated). Arrests have been made in Brussels: several MEPs/former MEPs/staffers, including one VP have been charged and are in jail. Contrast and compare.
 
PsB said:
You've got the orders of magnitude reversed. The sums recovered in the Qatar/Morocco scandal in Brussels (1.5 M€) are small potatoes compared to the sums wasted in the UK's COVID PPE scandals (10s-100s millions, in some cases billions misappropriated). Arrests have been made in Brussels: several MEPs/former MEPs/staffers, including one VP have been charged and are in jail. Contrast and compare.
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It's an example. The Brussels lobbying disaster en masse dwarfs it. The ERT has written policy documents that have been copied and pasted and signed off by the politicians to the value of hundreds of billions of dollars.
 
richardg said:
Whataboutery. Whilst the conservative party is full of disgusting spivs, it is small potatoes compared to the enormous lobbying sleaze that goes on in Brussels. There is even a cracking story going on right now where one top official from European parliament has been found with 150k cash in her apartment, while her boyfriend tries to take one for the team to clear her name. Unfortunately her father had also been arrested with 600k in a suitcase. Google Kaili Giorgi Brussels bribery.

Very soon the Westminster spivs will be gone. But the ones in Brussels are there full-time.
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150K? Christ, our lot wouldn't even get out of bed for that.
 
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