Brexit: give me a positive effect (2022 remastered edition) II

[TheDecameron]

There is a lot of regret amongst Beexiteers.
Not so much with te remainers though...

Polling data shows consistently that the mugs (by a considerable majority) now regret their decision. They have hard economic indicators and a vacating of the Brexit case by its proponents. The reason is simple- they cannot point to a single claim that came true. As time goes on the indicators will worsen and eventually a government will arrive that recommends rejoining the single market and customs union but before then I’m pretty confident the BritishUnion will have split.

 

[Nero]

There was no indication that any of the farmers interviewed voted for brexit. In my community very few did, and whilst many are now sanguine, some remain furious at the result.

My own impression of the article was that it reflected poor government policy as much as it did the issues of selling into the EU post-brexit - the failure to get the replacement for the CAP into place quickly, and with sufficient information to farmers, and the potentially alarming giveaways in the antipodean trade deals.

The CAP, the EU's biggest budget item, is itself, in my view, a piece of work. As the article also clearly pointed out, it massively advantages big, probably already wealthy landowners. I would add that it is also shockingly environmentally destructive, and has proven liable to sometimes considerable amounts of corruption, most notoriously in Hungary and other eastern EU countries, and traditionally, Italy. In the UK most of the biggest beneficiaries of area payments could manage quite comfortably without them, whilst those who benefit the least - small-scale and hill farmers most obviously - should have more support available to them.

I’m fairly sure that I am not sufficiently informed to respond, but I think the idea of the CAP was reasonably well-founded, and was brought in to protect predominantly the French farmers, with their inefficient subsistence model and small returns. I think it was hijacked by the feudal systems in other countries (e.g. UK) and once the big landowners and multinationals developed a taste for large subsidies for no effort, it was never going to end in any other way. Probably the same for the CFP too.
Twas ever thus.

 

[eternumviti]

Polling data shows consistently that the mugs (by a considerable majority) now regret their decision. They have hard economic indicators and a vacating of the Brexit case by its proponents. The reason is simple- they cannot point to a single claim that came true. As time goes on the indicators will worsen and eventually a government will arrive that recommends rejoining the single market and customs union but before then I’m pretty confident the BritishUnion will have split.

I'm sure you're delighted by the prospect. All your dreams come true.

 

[Conan]

Everyday, more Brexiteers come to admit that Brexit was a mistake and the facts don't lie.
What about you EV? Not long now?

 

[TheDecameron]

Everyday, more Brexiteers come to admit that Brexit was a mistake and the facts don't lie.
What about you EV? Not long now?

Well when the pastor’s been proselytising about Brexit for years it’s quite hard to admit he doesn’t believe a single word of the fairytale he’s been selling, even when the fairytale has been exposed.

 

[SiBrighton]

Trouble is, I can never see us going back. We had the best deal of the richer members - with the rebate and keeping the £. We’d get neither of these advantages back if we re-joined.

Even if it was decided to hold a referendum in the future about re-joining, would enough of the country be prepared to join on terms that weren’t as good as when we left , and to lose the pound. Can’t see it happening.

So ultimately we have to live with the outcome and move on (difficult as that may be ).

 

[MVV]

Trouble is, I can never see us going back. We had the best deal of the richer members - with the rebate and keeping the £. We’d get neither of these advantages back if we re-joined.

Even if it was decided to hold a referendum in the future about re-joining, would enough of the country be prepared to join on terms that weren’t as good as when we left , and to lose the pound. Can’t see it happening.

So ultimately we have to live with the outcome and move on (difficult as that may be ).

Well you may well live with the outcome. It is going to be at least 10 years before we rejoin.
Some people will need to die before we can admit the mistake.
I still firmly believe it was a mistake. Johnson Gove and most of the key protagonists never thought it would actually happen and didn't really want it to happen.

 

[NeilR]

Even if it was decided to hold a referendum in the future about re-joining, would enough of the country be prepared to join on terms that weren’t as good as when we left , and to lose the pound. Can’t see it happening.

So ultimately we have to live with the outcome and move on (difficult as that may be ).

we can probably rejoin the single market and customs union at some point in the future. That will resolve most of the issues and i think most people would be happy enough with that.

 

[eternumviti]

Everyday, more Brexiteers come to admit that Brexit was a mistake and the facts don't lie.
What about you EV? Not long now?

I hold the view that the EU was a mistake. Brexit was a consequence.

 

[Conan]

I hold the view that the EU was a mistake. Brexit was a consequence.

Can you point out any advantages for the UK of 47 years of EU membership?

 

[Nick_G]

I hold the view that the EU was a mistake. Brexit was a consequence.

I'll ask this again EV, as you didn't answer this last time. Did you get the result that you wanted?

 

[Colin L]

I hold the view that the EU was a mistake. Brexit was a consequence.

You’re just a parody account now. A single distorted view repeated ad nauseam. IFS and OBR numbers clearly show leaving the EU has cost more than the entire cost of membership and we have chucked away all the trade advantages we had with no compensating deals elsewhere. The Brexit “dividend” is a poorer, less equal, more bigoted and unfair society which has led to increasing poverty and reduced social provision. The right-wing small state disaster capitalists love it of course..

 

[PsB]

The Brexit “dividend” is a poorer, less equal, more bigoted and unfair society which has led to increasing poverty and reduced social provision. The right-wing small state disaster capitalists love it of course..

Of course, they got the result they have spent the last 30+ years lobbying for.

 

[SteveS1]

Trouble is, I can never see us going back. We had the best deal of the richer members - with the rebate and keeping the £. We’d get neither of these advantages back if we re-joined.

Even if it was decided to hold a referendum in the future about re-joining, would enough of the country be prepared to join on terms that weren’t as good as when we left , and to lose the pound. Can’t see it happening.

So ultimately we have to live with the outcome and move on (difficult as that may be ).

I agree with you, but it's been the case for many years that the modern world favours nations that are either very large or part of something large. The terms offered will always have to be balanced with how well the unchained Britannia is doing - see current signs as an indicator.

But your central point stands. Not only did we throw away future opportunities, reduce person freedoms and destroy existing business and trade, much of it developed because of our membership, we also enjoyed terms that were the envy of others. A tragically self destructive act borne of a lethal cocktail of monied people who benefit from chaos, historical hubris and lies requiring then unprovable negatives feeding a totally unfounded optimism.* Having little soundbites proved more powerful than even modestly detailed analysis, so much for 'experts' eh? We showed 'em.

* see results of previous boosterism from same individual.

 

[Nero]

I hold the view that the EU was a mistake. Brexit was a consequence.

Would you go so far as to say Brexit was a benefit of the EU?

 

[ff1d1l]

We'll go back when there is sufficient savvy public opinion for parties to see it as a vote winner and include it as a manifesto pledge, either straight out rejoining, or less likely IMHO, another referendum.
If it is just as part of the CU, I'd anticipate this being the first stage, and closer EU alignment being achieved possibly again as manifesto pledges.

However, I could well imagine the EU setting conditions for rejoining.
Something like a written constitution, and maybe PR. If they could insist on Leveson being invoked, I'm sure they would. The grown ups taking the dangerous toys away from the child.

I couldn't care less about joining the euro, or not.

 

[eternumviti]

Can you point out any advantages for the UK of 47 years of EU membership?

27 years.

There were some advantages, for some people, of course - the ability of the establishment (business) to shuffle mobile units of production (workers) around - or to relocate production to areas where labour was cheaper - at their free will was arguably one. Lots of disadvantages too, mainly around the matters of monetary and political integration and the inevitable accompanying dilution of political accountability.

I'll ask this again EV, as you didn't answer this last time. Did you get the result that you wanted?

Hoped for. No. I've answered that question many times.

 

[eternumviti]

Would you go so far as to say Brexit was a benefit of the EU?

No.

 

[eternumviti]

You’re just a parody account now. A single distorted view repeated ad nauseam. IFS and OBR numbers clearly show leaving the EU has cost more than the entire cost of membership and we have chucked away all the trade advantages we had with no compensating deals elsewhere. The Brexit “dividend” is a poorer, less equal, more bigoted and unfair society which has led to increasing poverty and reduced social provision. The right-wing small state disaster capitalists love it of course..

We could have had most or all of the advantages without the EU. The deliberate and compulsory conflation of a regional free trade arrangement with a political ideology.

 

[TheDecameron]

We’ve got a free trade deal- how’s that working out. Clue: the arse has fallen out of trade.