A thread for forthcoming vinyl releases...

[Tony L]

I have a later version with Prove it on side B. When this came out I was at college, no TT LOL. Must have bought mine early 80's

Are you sure? There are very few Television 12” singles Prove It/Venus (on green vinyl) was one. I can’t find your version on Discogs anyway.

PS Here’s a pic of my Television stash from a while back (the Adventure is a red one):

Prove it, playing, is green, but translucent so the turntable mat makes it look black!

 

[per-Sony-fied]

Are you sure? There are very few Television 12” singles Prove It/Venus (on green vinyl) was one. I can’t find your version on Discogs anyway.

PS Here’s a pic of my Television stash from a while back (the Adventure is a red one):

Will check tonight. Sure it must have prove it on there as I do not own the album & I don't think I would know that song so well otherwise. Anyway certainly did not buy it in 1977, I think maybe 79 was the earliest I had my first TT ran that through a home made (not to good) amplifier.

 

[per-Sony-fied]

Are you sure? There are very few Television 12” singles Prove It/Venus (on green vinyl) was one. I can’t find your version on Discogs anyway.


Prove it, playing, is green, but translucent so the turntable mat makes it look black!

Okay. Found it. It has come to light that I have the green vinyl version with Prove it on side A & Venus on side B (Arghhh!). Label says 1977 but still pretty sure it was bought some years later.

Appears I do not have Marquee moon at all unless it's hidden somewhere else that I have not looked Vinyl is in an organized mess

 

[Tony L]

I bought Prove It when it came out as I’d never seen a green record or a 12” single before. Add to that it being only about 10p more than a 7” I had to have it! As luck would have it I liked it. In ‘77 I’d have been 14-15, I certainly had it while I was still at school, chances are someone told me it was good as I’m not sure I’d have bought it just because it was green! I certainly had a few friends who were finding interesting new-wave stuff.

 

[wezzywest]

Yussef Dayes Experience. Live from Malibu album. Rough Trade only Ltd to 1,000 copies. Out now.

 

[TCar]

Michael Fremer makes some interesting points about the new Marquee Moon cut, which apparently sounds nothing like the album we all know and love.

I’m now listening to my original 1977 pressing and this sounds like a crime against mastering. I mean. It’s great. Leave it alone.

 

[Tony L]

For a total opposite perspective here’s Mike at The In Groove! That said I very seldom if ever agree with any of his rankings on pressings I have heard. My taste is different and I suspect his system represents a lot of what I don’t like about modern high-end audio, though saying that Fremer’s likely does too. I just don’t like the sort of absolutely massive high-mass multi-driver speakers they use. Shame he hasn’t got a UK 1st in the mix here. I’ve not heard the US. The UK 1st and the UK 12” singles certified sound great to my ears (and very similar). I hope Michael45 does it as I seem to be on the same page there.

 

[Yank]

I have the US Eletra first press, and it could use some improvement. I'm not sure about it being piercingly bright like Esposito says, but it's harsh and strained. Particularly Verlaine's voice. Sounds like the vocal channel is hitting a solid-state limiter really hard. I welcome a different-sounding version.

I also agree with Esposito's comments about the "artist's intentions". Skint '70s punks may not necessarily have a valid concept of what recorded sound can be. They just want it to "sound like a record". As for Andy Johns' involvement, apparently he was either in a drunken stupor, slept through the sessions, or was a no-show for much of it. Fremer's appeal to authority fallacy doesn't go very far with me.

 

[wezzywest]

For a total opposite perspective here’s Mike at The In Groove! That said I very seldom if ever agree with any of his rankings on pressings I have heard. My taste is different and I suspect his system represents a lot of what I don’t like about modern high-end audio, though saying that Fremer’s likely does too. I just don’t like the sort of absolutely massive high-mass multi-driver speakers they use. Shame he hasn’t got a UK 1st in the mix here. I’ve not heard the US. The UK 1st and the UK 12” singles certified sound great to my ears (and very similar). I hope Michael45 does it as I seem to be on the same page there.

Looking forward to receiving this release. Although after watching the video, praying it arrives in one piece.

 

[Tony L]

The UK doesn’t sound harsh to me, either the album or the 12” singles. The guitars are forward and really present; it is a record with a sound that was radical, fresh, new, and I am convinced 100% intentional. Despite the 10 minute guitar solos no one could mistake this for Hotel California!

My copy is the UK 1st press (Discogs) cut by Allen Landau (‘Allen’ or ‘AL’ in the run-off), who cut every Television record I own (i.e. plus the two Marquee Moon 12” singles, Adventure, and Foxhole). As such I have a very narrow subset, as this is what Television sounds like to me. To my ears it is right, but it is all I have known since I bought the green 12” of Prove It. I’d not want that presence or bite dialling back at all. I’ve just stuck the album on now, it sounds *exactly* like Marquee Moon. Very easy to follow what the bass is doing too. The vocal is thin, forward and sneering; this is not Frank Sinatra, but neither is it harsh. To be honest it amazes me every time I play it. This is such a brilliant album.

Also if this sound pallet was, as Mike Esposito thinks, in error why did they go back and do it again on Adventure? Exactly the same vocal EQ, same bright forward guitars etc. No way was this no intended.

PS I’ve met a lot of musicians in my time, a few quite well known, and I’ve not met anyone who doesn’t care what their records sound like. There are often arguments in studios, rejected test pressings at the mastering stage etc. This is normal, as is knowing who the good mastering engineers are and asking them to fix specific things that in hindsight weren’t quite right balance-wise on the master.

 

[Tony L]

Just carrying on the rant a bit further; one of the very hardest things for a band is creating a unique and instantly recognisable sound. That ‘thing’ that makes it possible to spot the band from a couple of notes on the radio in a cafe or wherever. That thing that Television, The B52’s, Joy Division, Wire, Magazine, PIL, The Fall, Cocteau Twins etc etc have in copious amounts, as did say Supertramp, Yes, Black Sabbath etc. The studio and mastering is all part of creating that sonic pallet. It could not be more deliberate!

 

[Yank]

Just carrying on the rant a bit further; one of the very hardest things for a band is creating a unique and instantly recognisable sound. That ‘thing’ that makes it possible to spot the band from a couple of notes on the radio in a cafe or wherever. That thing that Television, The B52’s, Joy Division, Wire, Magazine, PIL, The Fall, Cocteau Twins etc etc have in copious amounts, as did say Supertramp, Yes, Black Sabbath etc. The studio and mastering is all part of creating that sonic pallet. It could not be more deliberate!

But if the US and UK masterings sound different, which was "the artist's intention"?

 

[gavreid]

But if the US and UK masterings sound different, which was "the artist's intention"?

There're two processes going on here.

The cutting engineer will not be working from the full multi-track master tapes but rather a pre-mastered version. The artist may or may not have approved the master but would have no input on the cutting decisions made internationally.

Take Television Marquee Moon. https://www.discogs.com/release/451565-Television-Marquee-Moon It was Mastered at Sterling Sound in New York. The UK pressing was cut by Allen Landau who worked at CBS in London at the record pressed at CBS Aston Clinton. The US version on the other hand was cut at Sterling too. It was the physical size of the process then that differs from today's reissues that generally come from one place.

 

[Tony L]

But if the US and UK masterings sound different, which was "the artist's intention"?

This is the key reason 1st press from country of artist origin is usually considered the one that captures that intent, though back in the vinyl era there tended to be a cutting master created that captured what was wanted and was sent abroad. That said some foreign pressings sound horrific, all intent lost.

With the Television I’d love to hear the US 1st press, in fact I’d swap my UK pressing for one blind as I can think of so few situations where I don’t think the 1st press from artist/recording origin is the best one. I bet I’d love the US cut. It is likely a tape-generation fresher and even more present and raw than the UK copy!

Mike Esposito‘s view is certainly in conflict with say Fremer who loves the US 1st press.

 

[per-Sony-fied]

I'm confused after watching all those video's. Not sure which version I should buy if any. The 2012 version is certainly cheaper than the current Hi-Fidelity Rhino version which sounds like a 50/50 chance of it arriving unscathed.

 

[Tony L]

I'm confused after watching all those video's. Not sure which version I should buy if any. The 2012 version is certainly cheaper than the current Hi-Fidelity Rhino version which sounds like a 50/50 chance of it arriving unscathed.

I suspect the shipping will vary country to country, so the nightmare Mike reports in the US may not apply here.

That aside I doubt you’ll lose much on the new issue. It is only 5000 copies worldwide, so starts off far rarer than a US or UK first press, and is a lot cheaper than finding one. I’m actually half tempted just to buy one myself just to “review” it!

 

[Yank]

How hard is a UK first press to find, and how expensive?

 

[gavreid]

How hard is a UK first press to find, and how expensive?

Pretty rare £80-100 for a good copy.

 

[Tony L]

Same basic price range as a good original US copy. It definitely isn’t a record I see when out and about. It pops up far less often than say UK 1st pressings of Patti Smith’s Horses, Talking Heads 77, B52’s debut etc. None are easy to find NM though. I could do with a cover upgrade for my Marquee Moon, though the vinyl is a very nice strong and quiet EX.

 

[per-Sony-fied]

I been looking on eBay, seem to be quite a few for sale there. Thought of maybe buying one.

As for buying the Rhino it's £44 delivered (converted) or one can get a new copy of the 2012 Rhino release for £21 which Mike says is very close in quality but reading in the comments section some say the 2012 copy isn't as good as Mike says.