AVI's new floorstanders and subs or three way in two boxes (part II)

[euron]

Mort, I think you are wasting your time asking for a response of any value. You will just get the same old meaningless words typed onto the page.

I forwarded AndyG's measurements to my brother who owns the ADM 9.1's and he was a bit disappointed but not really surprised as about 8 years ago we owned a Mackie FR1400 PA amp which was rated at 250w RMS into 8ohms and was a hefty old thing. The ADM's barely weigh anymore than most good quality passive speakers of the same size (if at all) and they are claiming a total of 325w per channel so he didn't really believe there could be the same kind of amplification inside them as the Mackie had. Now we know and I am really pleased that someone finally made proper measurements as I really was baffled as to how they could be so much more powerful than all the competition but always worried about those very brief specs on the AVI website.

I guess their designer either used software to calculated the max power or just ran a number of individual tests to get some big numbers and then combined them all to get a massive 'car hi-fi' type output figure!!! Andy's tests clearly show this is not anywhere close to realistic in the real world.

 

[Cereal Killer]

Dunno. Loss adjuster okayed the total Friday. Walnut Tower = Standard finishes, in stock at ATC. Shipping to me and boxing up the old 100As for teardown, Amp Service and bits return on the same consignment... By end of this weeks coming? Reasonable?

I don't feel lucky but I'm okay with the recovery, it seems about right in the complex cost-to-shit-endured-ratio going on in my mind.

I bet!! it must be only just about coming to a balance with your losses. But at least you can recover most of what you want and need and purge the things you don't.

Gonna post some pics when you undress them and fist there ports??

 

[Fox]

Advertising Standards and even Trading Standards may look on any exaggerated or overenthusiastic figures rather poorly however. You can't by law go selling people 3/4 of a pint of bitter and charge it as a pint...

I bet!! it must be only just about coming to a balance with your losses. But at least you can recover most of what you want and need and purge the things you don't.
Gonna post some pics when you undress them and fist there ports??

Hard to calculate stuff like time spent reveneering and materials and labour was IMV reason enough to get towers this time around. Pragmatic choice for choosing standard over Zebrano finish (+£340) so it left more £££ for old amp service and recone of bass drivers and any rework.

Pix and Pr0n will indeed be forthcoming. Of both. I better make a new thread for that as the whole subject of AVI-on-PFM is smelling-funny now.

 

[Cereal Killer]

^^^
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/index.cfm

Help and Advice

Your consumer rights – products must be:

of satisfactory quality - last for the time you would expect it to and be free of any defects

fit for purpose – fit for the use described and any specific use you made clear to the trader
as described – match the description on packaging or what the trader told you.

Not having any luck with sorting out problems? Then call 08454 04 05 06.

 

[Cereal Killer]

Advertising Standards and even Trading Standards may look on any exaggerated or overenthusiastic figures rather poorly however. You can't by law go selling people 3/4 of a pint of bitter and charge it as a pint...



Hard to calculate stuff like time spent reveneering and materials and labour was IMV reason enough to get towers this time around. Pragmatism meant the difference between standard to Zebrano finish left more £££ for old amp service and recone of bass drivers and the cab rework.

Pix and Pr0n will indeed be forthcoming. Of both. I better make a new thread for that as the whole subject of AVI-on-PFM is smelling-funny now.

Tony could always rename the thread we must be at least running at a 50% ATC/youtube/pony spamattack by now

 

[Yank]

PS, you need to dust!

And the potted plant has died.

 

[DSJR]

I think the one positive thing that's come out of all this is that active speakers are hopefully something good, perfectly valid and well worth considering. The keen prices of smaller ones (well under a grand and the surprisingly capable Behringers are only around £300 the pair) could well be a godsend for some here...

Spacey, I'd love to hear the 25A's at some point. The "new" tweeter is to replace the Audax unit the 200 and 300's used isn't it, or are there two new tweeters? The Audax is being made again though I believe...

Onward and upward

 

[Cereal Killer]

Dave the new tweeters are both built in house by ATC the only difference being the sizes. 34mm for the 200/300 and 25mm for the rest. I've not heard either or seen the 25mm driver yet.

If you're ever near (north) Northumberland... let me know.

 

[Fox]

I know Behringer's prices are keen but buying from them has always been a false economy. Shockingly badly made, they blatantly copy other people's IP (their clone of a Mackie desk was so complete that they replicated the same power supply slump error resulting in a Mackie recall -- no such from Behringer), their products are aimed at home musicians so light-to-non-existent usage so things like knobs snap off or shear their graphic EQ has half the LEDs dead, the Tube compressor injects more noise than compression (actually that is kinda funky and it simulated detuned phased FM Stereo quite well)

Behringer. In all conscience? Great starter gear --perhaps -- if/i] you realise you are throwing good money after bad. If you rely on behringer daily it will all end in tears.

Sorry, I know we all want a great bargain, bucorners are cut to the point where a device is no longer reliable.

 

[darrylfunk]

I know Behringer's prices are keen but buying from them has always been a false economy. Shockingly badly made, they blatantly copy other people's IP (their clone of a Mackie desk was so complete that they replicated the same power supply slump error resulting in a Mackie recall -- no such from Behringer), their products are aimed at home musicians so light-to-non-existent usage so things like knobs snap off or shear their graphic EQ has half the LEDs dead, the Tube compressor injects more noise than compression (actually that is kinda funky and it simulated detuned phased FM Stereo quite well)

Behringer. In all conscience? Great starter gear --perhaps -- if/i] you realise you are throwing good money after bad. If you rely on behringer daily it will all end in tears.

Sorry, I know we all want a great bargain, bucorners are cut to the point where a device is no longer reliable.

they have made one or two exceptionally good value products over the years though.

trouble is they sold to many for these classics to become de rigeur cult items....and some of it is absolute pony.....

 

[Tony L]

I think the one positive thing that's come out of all this is that active speakers are hopefully something good, perfectly valid and well worth considering. The keen prices of smaller ones (well under a grand and the surprisingly capable Behringers are only around £300 the pair) could well be a godsend for some here...

Agreed on all points.

FWIW I also feel Ash / AVI are getting far too hard a time here at present. Much of what's being quoted is stuff Ash said a long, long time ago. Since then he's been very ill, recovered, and calmed down a lot. He hasn't made any similar claims for the ADM40s, in fact all he's published is a figure indicating they don't have a lot of bass - hardly an outlandish claim! Hyped-up with marketing or not, the ADM9s are a very decent little speaker at a very fair price. I hope we can as a community cut the guy a break and wish him well rather than trying to knock him down all the time. It's a really tough marketplace out there at the moment and I'd hate pfm to be party to damaging a company in any way.

 

[Mort]

Mort, you'll give yourself a hernia - chill.

Don't worry, Spacey, I'm busy Chillaxing - which is of course very chilled
I just wanted to correct a few errors on Ashley's part so he doesn't repeat them and wind up getting sued or being ripped by the ASA. Equally I wouldn't want to see people buying something that is not what they were expecting, given the limited demo opportunities, etc.

Cheers,
Mort

 

[Mort]

I know Behringer's prices are keen but buying from them has always been a false economy. Shockingly badly made, they blatantly copy other people's IP (their clone of a Mackie desk was so complete that they replicated the same power supply slump error resulting in a Mackie recall -- no such from Behringer), their products are aimed at home musicians so light-to-non-existent usage so things like knobs snap off or shear their graphic EQ has half the LEDs dead, the Tube compressor injects more noise than compression (actually that is kinda funky and it simulated detuned phased FM Stereo quite well)

Behringer. In all conscience? Great starter gear --perhaps -- if/i] you realise you are throwing good money after bad. If you rely on behringer daily it will all end in tears.

Sorry, I know we all want a great bargain, bucorners are cut to the point where a device is no longer reliable.

Hi, Fox,
I have quite a bit of Behringer gear in my home studio, which I know is not the same as a "proper" studio environment. But I have to say that your description does not mirror my experience of Behringer products. I've got a C-1 mic, V-Amp2, Composer MDX2100, and UB1202 mixer. I've found all of it well made (at these prices it's surprising to find cast cases and not plastics), and it all works as well or better than I expected. Add in actual manuals that tell you how to access all the functions, etc. and I think it is very good value. It does make me laugh when I hear people describe it as "Pro" gear - clearly not.
Now then, for poor home studio kit, see Alesis. And their documentation is a real joke.
Cheers,
Mort

 

[Blzebub]

Agreed on all points.

FWIW I also feel Ash / AVI are getting far too hard a time here at present. Much of what's being quoted is stuff Ash said a long, long time ago. Since then he's been very ill, recovered, and calmed down a lot. He hasn't made any similar claims for the ADM40s, in fact all he's published is a figure indicating they don't have a lot of bass - hardly an outlandish claim! Hyped-up with marketing or not, the ADM9s are a very decent little speaker at a very fair price. I hope we can as a community cut the guy a break and wish him well rather than trying to knock him down all the time. It's a really tough marketplace out there at the moment and I'd hate pfm to be party to damaging a company in any way.

He seems to spend a lot of his time "trash-talking" vs ATC's products. I think that's possibly a misguided strategy.

 

[JonR]

Agreed on all points.

FWIW I also feel Ash / AVI are getting far too hard a time here at present. Much of what's being quoted is stuff Ash said a long, long time ago. Since then he's been very ill, recovered, and calmed down a lot. He hasn't made any similar claims for the ADM40s, in fact all he's published is a figure indicating they don't have a lot of bass - hardly an outlandish claim! Hyped-up with marketing or not, the ADM9s are a very decent little speaker at a very fair price. I hope we can as a community cut the guy a break and wish him well rather than trying to knock him down all the time. It's a really tough marketplace out there at the moment and I'd hate pfm to be party to damaging a company in any way.

Fair enough, Tony, but IMO Ash does make a rod for his own back at times with his posting style which not only includes over-hyping his products but also crass generalisations such as "all passive speakers boom" which hardly helps his case! I agree though that, this apart, Ash is alright and, when he's not in full-scale selling mode, does make the odd useful contribution to the forum from time to time. I must admit that reading this and other recent threads has made me at the very least curious about active speakers too.

 

[Fox]

Hi, Fox,
I have quite a bit of Behringer gear in my home studio, which I know is not the same as a "proper" studio environment. But I have to say that your description does not mirror my experience of Behringer products. I've got a C-1 mic, V-Amp2, Composer MDX2100, and UB1202 mixer. I've found all of it well made (at these prices it's surprising to find cast cases and not plastics), and it all works as well or better than I expected. Add in actual manuals that tell you how to access all the functions, etc. and I think it is very good value. It does make me laugh when I hear people describe it as "Pro" gear - clearly not.
Now then, for poor home studio kit, see Alesis. And their documentation is a real joke.
Cheers,
Mort

Ok. I better be a bit clearer. Its the disregard for other people's current IP I find most annoying about Behringer -- they blatantly copy and get away with it.

Over the years I shied clear of Behringer until I went "oh can't be bad..." and a foot pedal I had developed an earth problem and put 240V into the case. So was not a happy bunny. The FCB looked like a solid bit of kit otherwise but not exactly the Roland it was trying to emulate. Won't trust them live. Light utility sure but pedal box wise none of it sounds remotely like the items they copy. In the context of this thread I'd be very very wary of their active monitors.

FWIW for good mics that head off the should I/shouldn't I use Behringer question, I recommend anyone on that situation to check out sE Electronic. Just been working with their 2200 Tube Mic Pre condenser with both tube and powered from the preamps in the desk. Sweet! I now own one.

 

[Nickdubai]

I also had Trios as well but I wasn't that impressed with them after all the hype, I just couldn't get on with them. They were not particularly revealing and the bass was just too light to be realistic, in short they always reminded me that I was listening to hifi and not a real event. I decided to get rid of all my AVI gear try something different.

Actually I haven't heard the adms at all.

I now have a new pair of Adams and they are indeed superior to the Trios even with the AVI power amp.

The Trios are a superb loudspeaker, huge range, feisty when the music is and relaxed when required. They also have a massive soundstage and ellicit detail superbly.

If I hadn't heard of active speakers the Trios would never have left my living room.

However there is an altogether accurate and total control element to the Adams that makes them do all the stuff the Trios can but with even more authority ( and more cheaply ).

I will not go back to passive speakers again.

 

[Cereal Killer]

Hi, Nick, so what did you move too?

 

[Nickdubai]

Sonus Faber Extrema and Cello Duet 350

Hi, Nick, so what did you move too?

 

[avole]

Agreed on all points.

FWIW I also feel Ash / AVI are getting far too hard a time here at present. Much of what's being quoted is stuff Ash said a long, long time ago. Since then he's been very ill, recovered, and calmed down a lot. He hasn't made any similar claims for the ADM40s, in fact all he's published is a figure indicating they don't have a lot of bass - hardly an outlandish claim! Hyped-up with marketing or not, the ADM9s are a very decent little speaker at a very fair price. I hope we can as a community cut the guy a break and wish him well rather than trying to knock him down all the time. It's a really tough marketplace out there at the moment and I'd hate pfm to be party to damaging a company in any way.

I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but the problem is no other manufacturer I can think of responds quite in the way AVI does nor makes such unsubstantiated claims. However, in this case, I think it is the acolytes more than the man himself doing the damage.

There's another point, too. A well designed passive will equal an active any day of the week, and that fact tends to get lost in all the hype. The fact a speaker is active doesn't suddenly make it wonderful, all the other design factors for making a good speaker still apply.