Winter election III

[eternumviti]

Spoke with my mum on the phone yesterday. Lifelong labour voter (albeit in a safe Tory seat), and until Brexit, someone I considered a fellow liberal. Brexit has changed her. She doesn't like BJ, but she's furious at those trying to "subvert the will of the people". I mentioned to her that it may no longer be the will of the people now that the reality pf Brexit is clearer, but that did not make a difference. She doesn't like Corbyn due to the nasty shadowy momentum types behind him, but when I suggested Keir Starmer would have been a better alternative she went off about how he is trying to subvert Brexit.

WTF is it with Brexit that has so corrupted so many folk's minds and arrested any rational thinking ? It's like a doomsday cult has brainwashed half of the UK population.

The only cult in town is the effing EU. Bizarre.

No, I suspect there will be no meeting of minds. I can quite understand a moral and philosophical objection the the EU, especially if it revolves around deceit and grandiosity. But to object to deceit and grandiosity on one hand, and vote for the arch deceiver and the very embodiment of grandiose pomposity that is Boris Johnson on the other, smacks of one hand not knowing what the other is doing

You make my own point for me. We can, and will, sack Johnson when he fails. We can't get near the European Commission, nor any of the other institutions of the EU bar to some degree the EP, by any democratic means.

We probably won’t meet on your last point, as long as the UK system continues to offer power to the likes of Johnson, Raab, et al. It’ll probably take 5 years to get a chance to sanction the harm that I fear will be unleashed on Friday, by which time lasting damage will have been done. In many cases, the damage will be irreparable (premature death being tricky to fix). I’d rather stay in a flawed EU that prevents the worst excesses I fear we’ll soon see, than leave and ‘win back’ the right to give the culprits a bit of a ticking off, after the event, via the ballot box. But that’s just me.

Let's hope that your fears re Johnson are unfounded, or at least won't be realised in their full horror. I can't agree on a Johnson government's excesses being worse than the EU's. Sorry to raise it again like a stuck record, but the what the EU did to Greece specifically and southern Europe more generally is completely inexcusable. Johnson will not shrink the UK GDP by 25%, pour hundreds of thousands onto the employment scrapheap, and destroy pensions, businesses and livelihoods.

Corbyn, by contrast, probably - and many pretty wise heads would maintain almost certainly - will.

 

[ff1d1l]

The only cult in town is the effing EU. Bizarre.



You make my own point for me. We can, and will, sack Johnson when he fails. We can't get near the European Commission, nor any of the other institutions of the EU bar to some degree the EP, by any democratic means.



Let's hope that your fears re Johnson are unfounded, or at least won't be realised in their full horror. I can't agree on a Johnson governments excesses being worse than the EU's. Sorry to raise it again like a stuck record, but the what the EU did to Greece specifically and southern Europe more generally is completely inexcusable. Johnson will not shrink the UK GDP by 25%, pour hundreds of thousands onto the employment scrapheap, and destroy pensions, businesses and livelihoods.

Corbyn, by contrast, probably - and many pretty wise heads would maintain almost certainly - will.

Fvck not fvcking Greece again.

 

[TheDecameron]

Fvck not fvcking Greece again.

Dig deep, because EV & Co didn’t (and won’t).

 

[Lee T]

I am not sure of the details here of the London Bridge case, but that's kind of the point, isn't it? In the aftermath of what happened, many of us haven't cared about those details.

In there lies the problem & why some feel the need to post without the full facts.

Just for clarity, both the public who were involved & the police have stated the person was wearing a bomb vest. It matters not if it's fake or real, it's a bomb vest which could potentially kill many more in the vaccinity.

The police were within their legal rights to protect the public as they are trained to do in instances such as this.

 

[Rodrat]

Much as I loath the Tories, I have to say their ‘love actually’ tv political broadcast is very clever and I suspect quite powerful. Not sure Corbyn could have pulled it off even if Labour had the chance.

 

[TheDecameron]

What’s “Love Actually”? Is it,

via Imgflip Meme Generator

..smouldering- with £126k of money from the public purse handed to her by her lover.

 

[eternumviti]

The line that bothers me most is ...

...our parliamentary sovereignty rests on the executive, the legislature and the judiciary. The suggestion that the judiciary should stay out of politics is a suggestion to undermine parliamentary sovereignty. I’m not an uncritical supporter of our constitutional arrangements as it is, but to have them undone by right wing vested self interest has historical precedents that should frighten us all

I think that there is a long-held convention in this country that the judiciary stays out of politics. To set out the reasons for this would constitute an essay. Many bright and knowledgeable commentators have already written that essay.

It’s now possible smell the decay wafting from the demographic you represent, in your comments about the impartiality of the judiciary. What right minded Telegraph reader would have made such a claim, even five years ago? It looks as though Britain is degrading into something resembling Argentina. A coffin full of past glories and a hankering for them. You’re on your own with that.

I don't represent a demographic. The judiciary was palpably partial. I have no hankering for empire, I leave that to the EU fanatics here.

Marxist nonsense for starters.

The manifesto is a bold attempt to realign this country. It's hardly Marxist.

Theft of private property has a bit of a sniff about it. That apart, whatever view you hold on the policies, it's the people that matter. Corbyn and Mcdonnell are unreformed Marxists. Pour hot water on them in the form of an election win, and watch them reconstitute.

Fvck not fvcking Greece again.

Oh, you just hate it, don't you. You can pretend its not there, but it isn't going to go away. The EU = the evisceration of Greece.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

In there lies the problem & why some feel the need to post without the full facts.

Just for clarity, both the public who were involved & the police have stated the person was wearing a bomb vest. It matters not if it's fake or real, it's a bomb vest which could potentially kill many more in the vaccinity.

The police were within their legal rights to protect the public as they are trained to do in instances such as this.

I’m quite prepared to accept the police word for it that he was wearing a (fake) suicide vest. The copper at the sharp end wouldn’t know, and wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. I don’t question his decision to shoot. What I’m a little more worried about is the fact that there has been a broad acceptance with very little questioning.

This leads me to worry that there might be less outrage than it should generate, if the police were to operate a ‘shoot to kill’ policy such as the one that ultimately did for a few careers in Northern Ireland. If a compliant public becomes inured to police shootings, we are in a bad place.

 

[TheDecameron]

I think that there is a long-held convention in this country that the judiciary stays out of politics. To set out the reasons for this would constitute an essay. Many bright and knowledgeable commentators have already written that essay.



I don't represent a demographic. The judiciary was palpably partial. I have no hankering for empire, I leave that to the EU fanatics here.



Theft of private property has a bit of a sniff about it. That apart, whatever view you hold on the policies, it's the people that matter. Corbyn and Mcdonnell are unreformed Marxists. Pour hot water on them in the form of an election win, and watch them reconstitute.



Oh, you just hate it, don't you. You can pretend its not there, but it isn't going to go away. The EU = the evisceration of Greece.

EV, if you didn’t exist, it would have been necessary for Quentin Letts to invent you.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I think that there is a long-held convention in this country that the judiciary stays out of politics. To set out the reasons for this would constitute an essay. Many bright and knowledgeable commentators have already written that essay.

I don’t see that it is a convention; perhaps the convention (if there is one) is that politicians don’t flout the law? Which would mean that the courts have no need to intervene.

There is a constitutional principle called the Principle of Legality. It says, broadly, that courts will interpret legislation (where the law is ambiguous) so as not to restrict fundamental rights. There is an expectation that where the legislature actually intends to restrict fundamental rights, the law will unequivocally say so. Therefore, in the absence of such statement, the court will assume that the intention of Parliament was not to restrict the right, and will interpret the law accordingly.

That’s a political act, in many ways. The notion that the law should always butt out of politics is a naive idea; there will always be judgments with political connotations. To coin a phrase: get over it.

 

[ff1d1l]

Brexit = the evisceration of the UK.

FIFY

 

[palacefan]

Personally I am able to find fault with all political parties but only one party shows outright contempt for working people ... ....Its futile...So I am not going to waste my time trying to engage with people without compassion , morality,simple basic decency, who advocate vile treatment of fellow humans, many who have had the hope and stuffing knocked out of them and now led by a truly vile individual who seems as bad as Thatcher.

How any one even allowing for the faults of Corbyn can support such appalling people let alone such a vile individual is beyond me.

 

[Fatmarley]

I found this on the Facebook Labour Party website and signed because I've been thinking the same thing a lot lately.

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petiti...F-AksCSe42O660FGG4N16735-4_NYpLiczztdpjjyymf8

 

[matthewr]

That splash you heard was ET jumping the shark with his anti-constitutionalist views on the Supreme Court. He should move to the US and join the GOP who are much more down with that sort of thing.

 

[kendo]

That splash you heard was ET jumping the shark with his anti-constitutionalist views on the Supreme Court. He should move to the US and join the GOP which are much more down with that sort of thing.

The E - Tea Party? Truthiness a speciality!

 

[Tony L]

I found this on the Facebook Labour Party website and signed because I've been thinking the same thing a lot lately.

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petiti...F-AksCSe42O660FGG4N16735-4_NYpLiczztdpjjyymf8

That would absolutely finish the Tory Party if it became law! Signed, not that it will amount to anything.

 

[Fatmarley]

 

[Seanm]

Much as I loath the Tories, I have to say their ‘love actually’ tv political broadcast is very clever and I suspect quite powerful. Not sure Corbyn could have pulled it off even if Labour had the chance.

It's weird. It seems to be positioning Johnson as a white supremacist recruitment agent. Which I suppose works. It's also ripped off a Labour one, which is only slightly less cringe-inducing.

 

[Fatmarley]

https://www.historylearningsite.co....td9qX0lfVbbaSm_gOC_HZweW5eEp8urj4McpcaCOWqPoM

 

[TheDecameron]

The Scottish leaders debate is on BBC up here at the moment. It’s surprisingly civilised- particularly the studio audience, of all political persuasions. There’s still a lot of love for Labour in Scotland!