advertisement


Winter election II

Status
Not open for further replies.
MichaelC said:
McDonnell Economics

Income Tax (and other taxes) explained in beer terms:

Suppose that every evening, 10 men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this :-

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

So, that's what they decided to do.......

The 10 men drank in the bar every evening and were quite happy with the arrangement until one day, the owner said,

"Since you are all such good customers, I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20".

Drinks for the 10 men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.

But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

Therefore, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing.
The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a pound out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a pound too.
It's unfair - he got 10 times more benefit than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back,
when I got only £2? The wealthy always win!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get
anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that is how our tax system works.

The people who pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics.
Click to expand...
Their health service would benefit from the reduced load after they had stopped drinking.
 
Seanm said:
It's another great manifesto and it's going to drag the entire political ground to the left just like the last one did.
Click to expand...

Really? Explain to me how the last one did anything beyond empowering the hard right and allowing the Tory Party to effectively govern from what is now a UKIP/Trump position on the electoral map. I obviously hope I’m wrong, but my guess is the Labour manifesto has gifted the next parliament to the Tories and that gives them every opportunity to follow their new alt-right disaster capitalist trajectory to its obvious conclusion.

At the start of this election run the predictions were that Labour would lose around 30 seats but the Tories would still be short of a majority. If the Tories do as I expect and launch a vacuous hollow manifesto with a few non-committal sound bites about boosting the NHS and police my guess is they’ll scrape home and Labour will be down even more seats. They just aren’t going to be able to sell what they are trying to sell much beyond their own narrow base; it isn’t playing in the working class heartlands and it isn’t playing in the middle class/white-collar/small business arena.
 
gavreid said:
Stein or Schtien? It doesn't stop you see. Most middle-aged people in this country, if they learnt a language at all, would have been taught French at School. The Germanic languages have always been less well understood, take Reesling vs Ryesling for example.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I'm English, a boomer, and a reasonably good German speaker (learnt at school and on exchange visits, plus six years in West Berlin). I've never understood this *Steen* thing, and always took it to be an American mispronuciation, of which there are many. My favourite is Harvey Weinstein/Weinsteen/Weenstein/Weensteen,.....lets call the whole thing off...
 
Coming as I do from a working class heartland, this manifesto has gone down really well-ignore the crap via the mainstream media, just like last time, the polling and the vox-pops are mediated through a very distorted anti Labour lens.The contrast between mild derision on the ITN news vs the more measured treatment via Newsnight-to the extent the dropping of the private schools commitment was the thing to bang on about was eyeopening.
Collective impression is "about effing time".
 
MikeMA said:
Agreed. I'm English, a boomer, and a reasonably good German speaker (learnt at school and on exchange visits, plus six years in West Berlin). I've never understood this *Steen* thing, and always took it to be an American mispronuciation, of which there are many. My favourite is Harvey Weinstein/Weinsteen/Weenstein/Weensteen,.....lets call the whole thing off...
Click to expand...

My favourite when I lived in America was a town in Pennsylvania called N. Versailles - pronounced Ver-Sails!
 
MichaelC said:
McDonnell Economics

Income Tax (and other taxes) explained in beer terms:

Suppose that every evening, 10 men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this :-

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

So, that's what they decided to do.......

The 10 men drank in the bar every evening and were quite happy with the arrangement until one day, the owner said,

"Since you are all such good customers, I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20".

Drinks for the 10 men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.

But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

Therefore, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing.
The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a pound out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a pound too.
It's unfair - he got 10 times more benefit than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back,
when I got only £2? The wealthy always win!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get
anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that is how our tax system works.

The people who pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics.
Click to expand...

And they’d be welcome to **** right off.
 
Tony L said:
Really? Explain to me how the last one did anything beyond empowering the hard right and allowing the Tory Party to effectively govern from what is now a UKIP/Trump position on the electoral map. I obviously hope I’m wrong, but my guess is the Labour manifesto has gifted the next parliament to the Tories and that gives them every opportunity to follow their new alt-right disaster capitalist trajectory to its obvious conclusion.

At the start of this election run the predictions were that Labour would lose around 30 seats but the Tories would still be short of a majority. If the Tories do as I expect and launch a vacuous hollow manifesto with a few non-committal sound bites about boosting the NHS and police my guess is they’ll scrape home and Labour will be down even more seats. They just aren’t going to be able to sell what they are trying to sell much beyond their own narrow base; it isn’t playing in the working class heartlands and it isn’t playing in the middle class/white-collar/small business arena.
Click to expand...
Remember that the 2017 Labour manifesto was leaked by the right because they thought the spending plans would entirely discredit the leadership. Remember that the Tories' attack lines were all about the Magic Money Tree. The day after the election the Tories made a show of abandoning austerity and now all the parties are competing to outspend each other.

Labour changed the game last time and they're doing it again now. Whatever happens on the 12th the things in that manifesto - an economic response to climate change, social care, infrastructure investment, tax reform - are going to be what shapes UK politics for the next 30 years at least.

As for your predictions, nah, see Cooky's post.
 
MikeMA said:
Agreed. I'm English, a boomer, and a reasonably good German speaker (learnt at school and on exchange visits, plus six years in West Berlin). I've never understood this *Steen* thing, and always took it to be an American mispronuciation, of which there are many. My favourite is Harvey Weinstein/Weinsteen/Weenstein/Weensteen,.....lets call the whole thing off...
Click to expand...
It probably is an Americanism, 'steen soundsless' foreign'
 
Vote Brexit Party- they’re going to have zero tariffs on food imports ( all those distressed farms will drop right into Tice and Co’s hands). And- Nigel is going to spend money on the NHS- even though he’s been caught red handed pledging to sell it off. Oh, and free broadband- that same communist free broadband he’s been denouncing. Like Trump and Boris, lies flow easily from his mouth. Let’s see which idiots buy it on 12 Dec.
 
gavreid said:
Apparently Jewish people used to do it themselves in order to sound less German - for obvious reasons. The hypocrisy of it all today stinks
Click to expand...
It's not really hypocrisy though is it? Jews trying to sound less German for obvious reasons is hardly comparable to Corbyn over-pronouncing someone's name to 'allegedly' make it sound more Jewish. In other news, Maureen Lipman, WTF?
 
Seanm said:
Remember that the 2017 Labour manifesto was leaked by the right because they thought the spending plans would entirely discredit the leadership. Remember that the Tories' attack lines were all about the Magic Money Tree. The day after the election the Tories made a show of abandoning austerity and now all the parties are competing to outspend each other.

Labour changed the game last time and they're doing it again now. Whatever happens on the 12th the things in that manifesto - an economic response to climate change, social care, infrastructure investment, tax reform - are going to be what shapes UK politics for the next 30 years at least.

As for your predictions, nah, see Cooky's post.
Click to expand...
For the next 30 years? Oh come on, that is a massive over stretch which I can see no evidence for. Things are changing quicker than ever, impossible to predict the political Landscape in 2 years time let alone 30.
 
Woodface said:
It's not really hypocrisy though is it? Jews trying to sound less German for obvious reasons is hardly comparable to Corbyn over-pronouncing someone's name to 'allegedly' make it sound more Jewish. In other news, Maureen Lipman, WTF?
Click to expand...

Of course not, I meant Jewish celebrities attacking Corbyn for his pronunciation - babies!
 
Tony L said:
One thing that constantly baffles me is that Labour never fight back against the Tories economically. Why don’t they attack with the hard cold facts that the Conservatives have presided over two consecutive down-grades of the UK credit rating (AAA to AA to AA negative) and have increased the national debt year on year since 2010? I’ve just seen yet another Labour bell-end on the TV failing to counter right-wing misinformation and effectively acknowledging a false narrative of ‘right-wing economic competence’ that stands up to no scrutiny whatsoever.

PS I’m not saying Corbyn and McDonnell won’t make it even worse, I’m just astonished by poorly prepared MPs are that don’t seem able to challenge what is a truly dreadful decade of Tory rule.
Click to expand...

This article in the New Statesman is a good analysis of the credibility of Labour’s economic plans.
https://apple.news/ATWv_Kt4ORHGhLy0ru2IoQw
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top