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Why should teachers have a pay rise?

I came from a background of Inclusion where we worked with children who struggled. Where time was given to listening and supporting. Where it was recognised that it wasn’t the children’s fault that they were where they were. Though there are still pockets of care, many Academies appear to have forgotten about relationships, care and providing a curriculum that gives access to all. Behaviour is approached in a black and white fashion so SEN students are punished for exhibiting their symptoms and relationships between staff and children become resentful. This inevitably leads to disengaged children, a gradual lowering of standards and teachers who just give up in the face of adversity. The focus is on the kids that could get the results, not the kids who really need them; a direct result of policy decisions. Governments used to listen to the evidence. Blair listened, understood and backed Sure Start etc. Poverty was addressed. This all comes from a Government who will not listen, will not act and who doesn’t really give a toss to be honest.The whole system is broken and the schools are suffering because of this. Add in the impact of the Pandemic and the Cost of Living crisis and you have a bleak outcome.
This is central. A state school that excludes a pupil has to take in an ex excluded pupil from elsewhere as part of the LEA Managed Move system. An academy can just exclude pupils.

The consequence is more and more excluded pupils, and with more and more state schools forced into academisation, fewer and fewer places for them to go. And of course such pupils do not get the specialist help they need because it’s expensive and the schools they end up in have fewest resources.
 
That last sentence so stupid, it undermines all you have written and said here. Total misunderstanding of the point being made and typically headline material. Sad you need to resort to such dramatic and frankly foolish writing.
All of your posts so far have been mindbogglingly stupid and completely misses the point that teaching, unless you teach in a nice comfy private school, is becoming increasingly pressurised with work load increases and more stress as evidenced by increased teacher suicides.
 
The posts seem to be at odds with what I see in the schools that I have worked in. The again, I’ve always worked in challenged inner city type environments.
 
@ks.234

Sorry, but no. Evidence of poor teaching comes from performance management data and management support programmes, never, in my personal experience from Ofsted

Sure, but it’s because of Ofsted that schools have become better at collecting and analysing the data.

Why the stick? I thought that the theory was that Ofsted was supportive, not a punishment beating. If a stick is what is needed to improve schools, perhaps we should bring back the cane

When they say supportive, they just mean giving the teachers tools to perform better. Management may decide that the best way to get those tools up and running is with some stick.
 
@Del monaco -When they say supportive, they just mean giving the teachers tools to perform better. Management may decide that the best way to get those tools up and running is with some stick.
Dominic Raab would certainly agree, but pupils do not respond to sticks and neither do teachers.

The bald fact of the matter is that teacher conditions have deteriorated massively over the last dozen or so years. Stress, workload, conditions of service, resources, funding and of course pay have all got worse and worse. Teacher recruitment is down, teacher retention is a growing problem.

Teachers have had plenty of stick over the years and it has only succeeded in making ducation worse and worse.

How many more teacher suicides will it take before a different approach aimed at improving schools rather than handing out more and more punishments is considered?
 
Dominic Raab would certainly agree, but pupils do not respond to sticks and neither do teachers.

The bald fact of the matter is that teacher conditions have deteriorated massively over the last dozen or so years. Stress, workload, conditions of service, resources, funding and of course pay have all got worse and worse. Teacher recruitment is down, teacher retention is a growing problem.

Teachers have had plenty of stick over the years and it has only succeeded in making ducation worse and worse.

How many more teacher suicides will it take before a different approach aimed at improving schools rather than handing out more and more punishments is considered?

Inspection in various forms is part and parcel of many work environments whether statutory inspections like Ofsted, ISO related inspections, performance management appraisals and so on. People react with differing degrees of apprehension to such things. That is not a reason that they should not be done.

My wife recently retired from teaching. She said that most irritation came, on a daily basis, from the ineptitude of senior management which increased markedly following academisation. Ofsted inspections were an infrequent occurrence and any increase in stress was again due to the senior managers panicking. Some of her colleagues who got seriously pissed off applied for jobs in other schools; some took early retirement; some just left.

Coroners decide whether a death is suicide; to determine the reason(s) for the suicide is in most cases impossible. It is unwise to assume that a suicide in any job or profession is directly related to how those people were treated whilst at work.
 
Inspection in various forms is part and parcel of many work environments whether statutory inspections like Ofsted, ISO related inspections, performance management appraisals and so on. People react with differing degrees of apprehension to such things. That is not a reason that they should not be done.

My wife recently retired from teaching. She said that most irritation came, on a daily basis, from the ineptitude of senior management which increased markedly following academisation. Ofsted inspections were an infrequent occurrence and any increase in stress was again due to the senior managers panicking. Some of her colleagues who got seriously pissed off applied for jobs in other schools; some took early retirement; some just left.

Coroners decide whether a death is suicide; to determine the reason for the suicide is in most cases impossible. It is unwise to assume that a suicide in any job or profession is directly related to how those people were treated whilst at work.

Ofsted is only one part of the problem, a performance management regime that pressurises teachers into a greater and great workload, funding cuts that mean teachers do not have the resources to do their job, bullying headteachers, and oppressive assessment requirements are also important

the fact that teacher suicides are twice the national suicide rate
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ble-national-average-uk-figures-a7635846.html
and have doubled more recently
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/rise-teachers-risk-suicide-mental-health
And half are so stressed they say that they are thinking of quitting
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1687084/suicidal-teachers-stressed-exhausting-education should tell it’s own story

I also have my own personal experience as a union caseworker, and stress and mental health is without doubt a significant and growing problem.
 
I always wonder what it’s like for those teachers that seem to get the raw end of the deal. The teachers that end up with a higher SEN quota or more behaviour issues in their classrooms. And then they are soon under scrutiny. Seems unfair to me. How can that be equal. Then there are those that always seem to get the less problematic groups.
 
All of your posts so far have been mindbogglingly stupid and completely misses the point that teaching, unless you teach in a nice comfy private school, is becoming increasingly pressurised with work load increases and more stress as evidenced by increased teacher suicides.

my 20 years in comprehensive schools included time in deprived areas and inner city London. Teaching there was ‘interesting’, and class control the priority. Imparting knowledge was a bonus. I understand stress. I was physically attacked 3 times, once with a knife.
Private education is easier I agree. My point, is that as time passes, recruiting staff becomes harder, because the likelihood of doing so from an increasingly ‘nervous/delicate/inexperienced’ young adult population, into a situation where confrontation is normal is diminishing. 95 % of the stress comes from in class problems and paperwork load. Ofsted is once every few years. To remove stress from staff you need 3 things.
Help educate student teachers to understand and avoid the causes of class disruption.
Remove or simplify paperwork and pay as overtime any that must be done at home.
Ensure senior managers are properly supportive.
Your general point is not wrong, in that Ofsted can improve it’s manners, it’s just that I see that criticism, in the context of the whole teaching experience, to be a speck of dust.
As to suicide statistics, I have the same reaction. Clearly, in this case the inspection was a contributing factor in the suicide, but also clearly not the only reason. And other teachers’ suicides may have arisen from pressures that we don’t know about at all. You seem to be putting them in the Ofsted box. I say it’s an oversimplification.
 
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I always wonder what it’s like for those teachers that seem to get the raw end of the deal. The teachers that end up with a higher SEN quota or more behaviour issues in their classrooms. And then they are soon under scrutiny. Seems unfair to me. How can that be equal. Then there are those that always seem to get the less problematic groups.
My LEA school had an excellent reputation for SEN provision, but we saw the proportion of SEN pupils rising as more and more were excluded from Academies. These tended to be those with behaviours issues.

At the same time class sizes were increasing due to funding cutbacks and teachers being made redundant so larger numbers of pupils with a larger proportion of specialist attention required.

On top of that staff cutbacks meant there were less and less teaching assistants attached to SEN pupils so a higher proportion of need, and fewer resources to deal with that need.

Class sizes increase with an increasing proportion of need, regardless, there is the constant pressure to raise standards.

Your last sentence points to a manor problem in that under such pressure a school becomes less and less collaborative and more and more ‘every man/woman for him/herself’. I have represented teachers who have had their most able pupils removed from their class and ‘elevated’ to a class taught by the deputy head. Those pupils replaced by pupils ‘demoted’ from the deputies class.

I put ‘demoted’ in air quotes, but the truth is that such pupils very much feel demoted which only adds exponentially to a decline in their self esteem and ability to make progress.

The point that I would like non teachers to understand here is that as part of the Performance Management Programme, a teacher has to set targets for pupil outcomes against which their own performance is measured at the end of the cycle. This is right and reasonable if done fairly. But in the case noted above, the pupils might change, but the targets stay the same with the result that the deputy head exceeds their target, but the ordinary teacher does not.

Another problem with target setting is that they are often set by the school. I know fairly certainly that a class will get say 70% A* to C, but a head might decide they want the school to get 80% and so imposes an 80% target. I know from personal experience one case where a head imposed and 85% target in a school that historically had only ever achieved a high of 64% (and an average far lower). I have represented a host of other similar cases where the numbers are less dramatic but still very obviously unrealistic and teachers find themselves in Capability proceedings as a result.

Most head teachers are good, but many, far too many, are bullies and Michael Gove’s reforms are a Bullies Charter. To give just one example, one part of the new Teacher Standards is to “make a contribution to the wider school” and this is used to pressurise teachers into doing more and more extra curricular activities. Even where a teacher, for example runs an after school club, what they once did voluntarily because they wanted to, suddenly becomes part of the Assessment which they are measured against and the after school club that they did out of the goodness of their heart suddenly has to demonstrate that it has planing, pupil progress, attendance etc.

There is a government policy to force LEA to convert, and obviously a school like mine will suffer more and more. My old LEA school has now converted to an academy because there are financial advantages.

Government policy is driving this ideology, underfunding and unrealistic target setting are among the tools they use and Ofsted is undoubtedly another tool. For a school not meeting our Government’s agenda, Ofsted is not supportive.

Our education system is in crisis and teacher stress is a very real and growing problem. Teachers are not snowflakes, they are targets in a political game.

Teacher recruitment and retention is a real and growing and deliberate problem caused by ideological choices made by our politicians.
 
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I put ‘demoted’ in air quotes, but the truth is that such pupils very much feel demoted which only adds exponentially to their self esteem and ability to make progress.

Air quotes is a new term to me. I rather think you're saying the opposite of that intended above. '.....Adds exponentially to their self esteem and ability.....' Think you mean 'detracts from' ? Which subject areas do you teach, b.t.w., and at which level? Am naturally interested, although cannot comment on current educational trends as I've ben out it for so long.
 
Air quotes is a new term to me. I rather think you're saying the opposite of that intended above. '.....Adds exponentially to their self esteem and ability.....' Think you mean 'detracts from' ? Which subject areas do you teach, b.t.w., and at which level? Am naturally interested, although cannot comment on current educational trends as I've ben out it for so long.

Thank you. Now corrected.

I was head of art in an LEA Secondary School and also Secretary of the local branch of the NASUWT. My own personal teaching experience was very good, I had an excellent head and because of my position and experience I was able to cope with the increasing workload and issues.

But my personal experience is not the point. As a caseworker representing teachers across one of the largest counties in the UK, the increase is stress, workload, bullying from above, lack of resources, etc etc is undoubtedly on the increase and a very obvious cause of a looming crisis in education
 
I retired a few years ago, but this really isn’t about me.

I didn't say it was. But you speak with authority, I was interested Iin how contemporary that was.

I on the other hand, last taught in secondary school in 1988! I have no idea of what it is like now, and wouldn't bother commenting.

As it happens, I have recently been exposed to OFSTED in HE, so I do have a view on how that functions.
 
I didn't say it was. But you speak with authority, I was interested Iin how contemporary that was.

I on the other hand, last taught in secondary school in 1988! I have no idea of what it is like now, and wouldn't bother commenting.

As it happens, I have recently been exposed to OFSTED in HE, so I do have a view on how that functions.
Apologies if I sounded sharp, didn’t mean to be, just wanted to focus on the broader political issues rather than individual experience. (Although the two are obviously related)

I have only represented HE teachers a few times, mostly on redundancy, but do not have any real insights into HE more generally. How was your Ofsted in HE? Is HE subject to funding cuts like LEA schools.
 
The problem with the scheme is that the conditions were set out in a ridiculously confusing way so that even if you spent all the money, if you didn't do it with the right ratios or couldn't get vulnerable students to engage fully you had a claw back. It was basically a pet project by someone to try and have state schools doing what they thought worked at Oxbridge despite the settings being very different.
 
The problem with the scheme is that the conditions were set out in a ridiculously confusing way so that even if you spent all the money, if you didn't do it with the right ratios or couldn't get vulnerable students to engage fully you had a claw back. It was basically a pet project by someone to try and have state schools doing what they thought worked at Oxbridge despite the settings being very different.
Yes, i’m not up to speed on this scheme, but it seems that while the government provides a proportion of the funding, that is conditional on the school making up the balance from it’s existing budget, so a school that cannot find the funds to find the balance, gets nothing.

As the proposition of government funding drops, the number of schools who cannot afford the balance rises.

Hence so much of the money goes unclaimed
 


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