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Why should teachers have a pay rise?

divedeepdog said:
How about Supermarket staff? Front line dealing with 'the public'. Now shops are full of the the Chosen Grey Vaccinated that think its all OK.

At least 1 of the major players have told staff not to have phones whilst at work, wouldn't want track n trace app pinging all day.

Everybody has a case to jump the queue, medical grounds and not getting terminally ill seems to be best case?
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Supermarket staff may well deserve a pay rise, but they’re not public sector, so not subject to this governments pay freeze.
 
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Nurses can, in specific circumstances, be forced to work beyond their contractual hours. For instance, if the nurse on the next shift calls in sick, the nurse in duty would be expected to remain on duty until cover had been arranged. In fact it would be gross misconduct to leave a ward or unit unstaffed by a registered nurse. Similarly, all NHS Trusts have a ‘Serious & Untoward incident’ plan. That could involve cancelling planned annual leave or calling a nurse into work on a rest day.
 
My real-life experience is of a sector with demands way beyond contractual obligations. An industry with a genuine problem of recruitment and retention, with the government failing to meet its own targeted recruitment levels. With external factors, designed to make schools more accessible, that are warping the expectations of many parents as to the responsibility of their child's teachers. Goodwill and 'a calling' will only last so far in a modern labour market where working on a till in Aldi will give similar pay levels to a graduate and post graduate educated new teacher, or where a contracted thirty-six hour working week is simply not enough to do the job, resulting in unpaid overtime, weekend and evening work.
 
Finnegan said:
Nurses can, in specific circumstances, be forced to work beyond their contractual hours. For instance, if the nurse on the next shift calls in sick, the nurse in duty would be expected to remain on duty until cover had been arranged. In fact it would be gross misconduct to leave a ward or unit unstaffed by a registered nurse. Similarly, all NHS Trusts have a ‘Serious & Untoward incident’ plan. That could involve cancelling planned annual leave or calling a nurse into work on a rest day.
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How is this relevant? Are you trying to suggest that teachers aren’t worthy of a pay rise? If you use the RPI (which the government does when it suits it), my income is in real terms 23% less than it was in 2010. More annoyingly and why I’m now out of the classroom is absolute bollocks piled upon teachers, the de-professionalising, and the pressure applied to achieve the unachievable. That together with every problem in society being laid at their door.
 
lordsummit said:
How is this relevant? Are you trying to suggest that teachers aren’t worthy of a pay rise? If you use the RPI (which the government does when it suits it), my income is in real terms 23% less than it was in 2010. More annoyingly and why I’m now out of the classroom is absolute bollocks piled upon teachers, the de-professionalising, and the pressure applied to achieve the unachievable. That together with every problem in society being laid at their door.
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I think you have misread this. I took it to be a response to this post, which doesn’t comment on teachers either way.

Big Tabs said:
I do not agree that Nurses have been pressurised into working excessive hours to cover shortfalls.

Nobody makes staff work excessive hours.

It is a matter of conscience, and professional integrity.

Been like that for decades, it is not a new thing.
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regards

Kevin
 
Andrew C! said:
Should I start another ‘biased’ thread about why the police, bus drivers, etc should have a rise?
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Bus drivers are Private Sector now. I think if I was a Bus Driver I’d be trying for a train/tube drivers job. Pay differential between the two is quite large.

Cheers BB
 
lordsummit said:
To be fair this was a bit of a thread resurrection, and the nurses have their own thread!
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Apologies. FWIW, several of my friends are ex-teachers. All have given up due to intolerable stress. My ex-missus was a lecturer in higher education. She spent most weekends marking essays and preparing lectures and seminars. It was one of the reasons our relationship deteriorated.
 
Mike Hughes said:
Always prescient I think.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014
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A good piece, he makes some very cogent points. This line sums it up, for me:

The most insidious thing about trickle-down economics isn’t believing that if the rich get richer, it’s good for the economy. It’s believing that if the poor get richer, it’s bad for the economy.
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Also:
...capitalism left unchecked tends toward concentration and collapse. It can be managed either to benefit the few in the near term or the many in the long term. The work of democracies is to bend it to the latter. That is why investments in the middle class work. And tax breaks for rich people like us don’t. Balancing the power of workers and billionaires by raising the minimum wage isn’t bad for capitalism. It’s an indispensable tool smart capitalists use to make capitalism stable and sustainable.
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The sad thing is, this was written nine years ago and things have only got worse.
 
That's what I really don't understand. How making most people struggle can be good for capitalism. We've had short-termism for so long in the UK the whole place is starting to look sick.
 
lordsummit said:
How is this relevant? Are you trying to suggest that teachers aren’t worthy of a pay rise? If you use the RPI (which the government does when it suits it), my income is in real terms 23% less than it was in 2010. More annoyingly and why I’m now out of the classroom is absolute bollocks piled upon teachers, the de-professionalising, and the pressure applied to achieve the unachievable. That together with every problem in society being laid at their door.
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Agree with everything you say, but I didn’t read @Finnegan post as saying teachers are not worth a pay rise. Hope I’m correct!
 
It was my mistake, had missed Big Tabs post in my skim and read the aforementioned post in isolation. I have sentenced myself to no wine or beer and five listens to Free Jazz before bedtime. If I’m not sufficiently contrite I’ll listen to all of Metal Machine Music twice. I hope that is satisfactory?
 
lordsummit said:
It was my mistake, had missed Big Tabs post in my skim and read the aforementioned post in isolation. I have sentenced myself to no wine or beer and five listens to Free Jazz before bedtime. If I’m not sufficiently contrite I’ll listen to all of Metal Machine Music twice. I hope that is satisfactory?
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Not necessary, nobody deserves that.
 
According to the D of E 3% is fair (can see that going down really well given the current dispute) and affordable (when 6th form funding is going up by 2.2% so it isn't).

The increase may apparently go up if energy prices go down, I am sure that all the teachers here will be very grateful for their living standards depending on how Putin does in the Ukraine war.
 
I see there are also noises to the effect that schools may be permitted to give rises, but out of existing school budgets, which is effectively no rise, even a paltry 3%.
 
Don't know what they are going on about there. Every state school I have ever seen follows the STPCD, you don't just splatter your own pay scales around.
 
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