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Who's Heard the Dutch & Dutch Speakers

Discussion in 'audio' started by zekezebra, Nov 27, 2018.

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  1. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    Where did you see that V, do you have a link , just had a quick shufty on the Weiss website didn’t see anything there?
    Keith
     
  2. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    I backed up the claim that you are objecting to with comparative measurements from an independent source. Taken out of context though, I can see your point.

    https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/thr...tch-dutch-speakers.222062/page-5#post-3535498

    As to what another retailer told you, is this really a fair comparison? Did they previously sell the Dutch & Dutch 8c alongside the Kii Three? That seems unlikely. Had they even heard a pair? Up until six months ago I was selling both the Kii Three and the Dutch & Dutch 8c, so I have quite a bit of experience of both products in a variety of different spaces. I have spent a lot of hours comparing them side-by-side too. I believe that the Dutch & Dutch 8c is a better fit for most home users. There are a whole bunch of reasons for this, but perhaps the most telling is that everyone who compared the two speakers side-by-side chose the 8c over the Three.

    I have given you a fair bit of my time. How about giving me the benefit of the doubt? I am here to answer questions about the products I sell and to give people an opportunity to try them for themselves.
     
    Dozey, Nagraboy and Sloop John B like this.
  3. vln

    vln Shuns mooks. And MQA.

    Not yet on the website, but apparently Daniel had prototypes in Munich and in Regensdorf CH (didn't get to see them even though I was there). I did ask him directly via email, and got the information from him.
     
  4. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    But why send the speakers an attenuated version of the original signal, when it’s quite possible and advantageous for the DSP in the speakers themselves to do the attenuating? And why pay Weiss type money to throw information away?
     
  5. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    If you really need the extra inputs and a volume knob, then this is (I presume) one way to get those things without an extra round DA and AD conversion.
     
  6. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    There aren’t many components that can send and attenuate a digital signal so always useful to have another, I use the RME A/D For inputs and knob duties.
    Keith
     
    Gingerbeard and Knipester like this.
  7. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

  8. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

  9. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    These boxes can do a bunch of different things, including providing additional analogue and digital inputs, digital outputs, volume control, remote control and streaming. They also include Dirac Live room correction, which you could use instead of the built-in parametric EQ, if you wanted. They even bundle in a calibrated mic.
     
  10. vln

    vln Shuns mooks. And MQA.

    I agree, it's cleaner and cheaper to do it directly in the speaker (provided it can do it*), but if you want to set up a more conventional system with some additional sources like a CDP or a DAB tuner for back up purposes and/or background listening, or want to connect headphones via a DAC, then this component is useful. BTW, it doesn't only do input switching and volume control, but a lot of other DSP related stuff that may not be offered by the respective 'digital' speaker.

    * The D&D and the Kii can, the Genelec 8351 can't
     
  11. vln

    vln Shuns mooks. And MQA.

    How do you control the volume with the D&Ds? It would be pretty awkward to have to use one app for the music and then having to change for another (D&D-specific) app just to change the volume?
     
  12. AOM3

    AOM3 Active Member

    If you had a preamp with Dirac RC in your system with the 8Cs for whatever reason, would it then be preferable to use the preamp room correction or 8C room correction?
     
  13. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    You will be able to control the volume with Roon (with the attenuation carried out inside the speakers).
     
  14. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    On paper, Dirac Live is more advanced. In practice, I doubt that it would make an appreciable difference. However, Dirac Live also includes a lot of automation and guidance, which makes it a little simpler to use than the built-in parametric EQ, but at the expense of some flexibility (and the extra box).

    Whichever room correction option you choose, you would still need to set the boundary parameters using the settings inside the speakers.
     
  15. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    I don’t beleive you need Dirac with the 8Cs or Kiis.
    It is easy to experiment with Dirac and straightforward to use, I believe Dirac still offers a free trial?
    I thought it best when you limited Dirac’s correction to the first few hundred hertz.
    Traditional speakers benefit more but the 8Cs with their cardioid, and wide,even dispersion measure so much more tidily without any correction.
    I just reduce the very worst room mode peaks with the internal EQ and they sound fantastic.
    Keith
     
  16. SteveO...

    SteveO... Well-Known Member

    What is the latest on Roon integration? Also, what would be the recommended route for a integrating an MC vinyl front end?

    I'm interested in the 8Cs as a replacement/simplification of a NUC/RoonRock-> Devialet E400 -> WB Vector system in a difficult room. I currently use the PEQ in Roon which works well, but doesn't help with vinyl or BluRay. The 8Cs with their cardioid dispersion and EQ/DRC + Roon could be just what I need.
     
  17. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    I spoke with Martijn on Monday and he said the software was with Roon awaiting their certification, they have used it at the last couple of shows.
    I am hopeful,
    Keith
     
  18. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    You can connect the left and right outputs from an MC phono stage to the XLR inputs on each speaker. Pretty soon you will be able to connect the speakers to Roon over Ethernet. The PEQ filters inside the 8c work exactly the same way as the ones inside Roon. Obviously new speakers would require new measurements and filters. You can do that yourself but I can do that for you.

    One slightly off-the-wall alternative would be to keep one half of your 400 and leave your NUC and turntable connected to that. Connect the 200's digital output to one of the speakers, then run an AES cable across to the second speaker.
     
  19. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    I agree. The only time I run EQ full range is when a customer is shooting for a specific target curve (like the Harman one that Mitch Barnett used in his reviews). In this situation, I actually prefer the manual control offered by the PEQ inside the speakers to systems like Dirac Live. This provides the flexibility to apply narrow filters to deal with low frequency modal issues and broader filters to line up the midrange and treble.
     
  20. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    Why should you have to pay $120 a year for a volume control?! That is ridiculous! roon made a complete dogs breakfast of my own collection of classical rips when I tried it, I am not interested in Tidal which it does do, or MQA, but I am a Qobuz user which roon doesn’t do. So roon is not a good solution for people like me.
     
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