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Who's Heard the Dutch & Dutch Speakers

Discussion in 'audio' started by zekezebra, Nov 27, 2018.

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  1. Not yet. but i do have lots of experience to class D amps, owned and demoed.
     
  2. Andrew C!

    Andrew C! Been around a while....

    Neither have I. However the designers seem to like and trust their component selections. Also those on here who have heard them seem to manage to put up with the amplification provided.
     
  3. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    Very interesting design, but to me they seem badly hampered by the lack of control options. They’ve been imminently “roon ready” for ages, but even if that was delivered why would you pay $120 a year for a volume control that is bound to be laggy because it is app and network based. And no Qobuz. And dutch and dutches own network based app is laggy too, by some accounts. Nor does it make much sense to use a DAC in front of them, that just gives you a redundant D-A-D path. They need an inbuilt DLNA renderer, a USB input and a responsive, inbuilt remotely controllable volume control.
     
  4. Andrew C!

    Andrew C! Been around a while....

    AndyU, you raise some interesting observations. I’m in theory looking for a speaker system that reduces box count, has in room correction without sacrificing sound quality, and that can accept more than one source.

    I’m not looking at Roon or any other pay to stream music yet. Never say never, tho. The reviews on this system do seem very favourable, but as always I’ll get round to listening for myself.
     
  5. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    Class D is an analogue topology. This fact is not changed by your inability to grasp it, unwillingness to accept it or whatever else is driving you to pursue this.

    Equally silly are your assertions that they should have used 40 or 64 bit processing and linear amplification. You do not actually explain the reasoning behind either of these statements, but the implication is that these changes would make the speakers sound better. Most likely they would make the speakers larger, heavier and more expensive, for no appreciable benefit.
     
  6. Lee, i agree some class D amps are mosfet base. But it is controlled how? With a digital filter or not?

    Can you tell me which class D modules are being used in these?
     
  7. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    If you look at them as an active speaker then they already offer more I/O options than most competitors. Roon integration will expand the options further. That being said, I would also like to see some additional inputs. This has been fed back to to Dutch & Dutch and there are a couple of options being considered/developed. In the meantime, there are various third party options available.
     
  8. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    How it works is explained rather well on the Wikipedia page and in the YouTube video that you referenced. They both explain the technology much better than I could manage in a few lines here. If these sources cannot explain the technology sufficiently well, then please start a new thread asking for help. I will contribute if I can. I cannot keep circling around this with you here as it has little or nothing to do with the thread.

    From memory, they use Pascal modules.
     
  9. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    It was the Hypex Ncores, I first heard them in the Grimm LS1s that really convinced me that Class -D could be just as good as anything,
    A breakout box to add greater connectivity for domestic users would be useful and D&D are working on that, their own app isn’t laggy at all, and they do have inbuilt remotely controllable volume I am using it at this moment.
    Keith
     
  10. Nagraboy

    Nagraboy pfm Member

    I just had a home demo for a few days and didn’t notice any lag when changing volume via the app, which is how I controlled volume for vinyl initially. It just changes instantly. Never any lag when I’ve used Roon for volume in other setups either.

    Although technically not optimal to use a DAC with volume control into the D&D8c, I found it very convenient and the sound was absolutely fantastic. It sounds great regardless of whether it’s a digital or analogue signal incoming. I had my Roon Nucleus (another marvellous product) plugged in via USB, and my phono stage went in via the AD convertor input on my Sony DAC, digitised at DSD128 rate. So both were controlled via the Sony’s volume control.

    For a complete digital system for around £12k all in, the Roon Nucleus with 2TB SSD and iPad for control, with the Dutch & Dutch 8c must be the best option bar none. In my small flat I had bass flat to below 30Hz, with a purer, more real, cleaner midrange and treble than my Harbeths. I was emotionally moved by their thrilling performance and they’re just on another level.

    These speakers are much better value than standard HiFi boxes and passive speakers. They can do things that the former will never be able to do. But they do require the suspension of belief in audiophile myths/ideology in favour of simply sitting and listening to the inarguable quality in front of you.

    PS. I’d like to add how good Lee from Strictly Stereo was to deal with. He spent a lot of time getting the EQ measurements done and making sure everything was set up properly. Great dealer and great guy, recommended.
     
  11. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    Spot on, but the proof of the pudding is in the listening!
    Keith
     
  12. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    It looks like you are within easy reach of us. If the aesthetics pass muster, I would be happy to offer you the same home demo that Nagraboy just had.
     
  13. Andrew C!

    Andrew C! Been around a while....

    Thank you. Leave this with me for now, and I'll hopefully be in touch directly with you in due course. I have done my research and indeed you aren't too far away.
     
  14. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    Do you mean by remote volume control the web based app? Or is there an actual remote control?
     
  15. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    Your phone, iPad, or whatever is the remote.
    Keith
     
  16. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    It looks like they are using Pascal S-PRO2 and S-A1 modules, based on photos of the internals.

    There is no remote handset. There is a native app in the pipeline which should improve upon the existing web app. If and when a breakout box is released, I would expect that to include a remote handset covering volume control and input switching, or at least an IR sensor to use with third party remotes.
     
    AndyU likes this.
  17. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    So what?

    You use these terms as if they are somehow interchangeable. PWM is a technique commonly used in class D designs. A MOSFET is a type of transistor which can be used in class D designs. You can build a class D amplifier using one, the other, both or neither of these things. Their presence or absence is not an indicator of quality.
     
  18. Strictly Stereo

    Strictly Stereo Trade: Strictly Stereo

    This is a shot of the six column stand with custom top and base plates to fit the 8c.

    [​IMG]
     
    Andrew C! likes this.
  19. Space is the Place

    Space is the Place pfm Member

    I've heard the 8C's at a show they sounded fairly good, big sound and reasonable bass extension for the size of them. I'm guessing there is a bigger profit margin on them than traditional hi-fi separates.

    Interesting that the response in room is tailored to 21Hz with a falling response of -10 dB at 20 kHz, this is the sort of response you'd always aim for with the TacT system and it always sounded the most balanced.

    Is the front baffle on these speaker now cast alloy?

    Graph from Mitch Barnett: Computer Audiophile.

    [​IMG]
     
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