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What Brexit tells us

NeilR said:
Two thoughts spring to mind here.

Firstly, the British obsession with getting a bargain has driven this process, so we can't just blame nasty capitalists for the job exodus, the general population must share some responsibility.

Secondly, even if the lost industry was re-onshored, the majority of the work will be done by robots anyway so not many new jobs will be created, it is too late now.

To ensure cohesion and a continuation of civilised society, we need to think more radically. Something like the universal basic income is one of the ideas that might lead us out of this mess.
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+1. There is seemingly a British obsession with the days of Empire and her "glorious past" which is rather unfortunate.
 
I agree that Brexit and Trump seem to be the result of the current system in UK and USA not working for a whole section of society, unfortunately lashing out by voting for Brexit seems unlikely to solve things for those people.

There is another way - I was in Amsterdam last summer and was surprised how expensive many things felt (meals out, taxis, etc), gradually it dawned on me that I was paying for a service delivered by people and if these people wanted a decent wage then I had to pay for it. I'd guess that the minimum wage there is significantly higher than in UK.

So maybe there is at least part of an answer here, we can have our dead cheap DVD players, made in an automated factory, and the ex-factory workers will gradually migrate to the service sector. As long as we ensure we pay them healthy wages the wealth will continue to get shared around.

Just a thought
Phil
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I'm so glad you said that Mick. If you'd agreed with me, I'd have had to rethink my principles.
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Suzie

Trying to work out what is best in the long term is beyond the scope of most people and this thread alone is evidence of that. No one seems to be agreeing on anything.

The best solution is for everyone to look out for themselves and just get on with improving their own circumstances. Each of us can rise or fall according to our own abilities and willingness to work.

To put it bluntly, there is no way in a million years I want to trust some under achiever like Ragaman to look after me, I prefer to look after myself. If we all look after ourselves, some of us will go up and some of us will go down and that is the law of the universe.

Regards

Mick
 
Mr. Problem with your theory.

I am sure Raga would do an excellent job
Why would I want a successful person to look after me, if they are over-dosed on the selfish gene.

I can agree a little with making your own life, but some, through no fault of their own need a hand.

Bloss
 
I don't know Mick but I've never met a self-made man who hadn't received a biiiig hand from the public purse.
 
I've never really thought of Mick as self-made. Self-satisfied, yes. Self-opinionated, certainly. Self-aggrandising, undoubtedly; but what he has he got through having a job and milking a system which worked in his favour. When I go looking for a new role model, Mick needn't wait by the phone.
 
'A self-made man who worships his creator' as someone once said of someone else.

I've got where I am through sheer good luck, combined with two sensible major decisions (to buy a flat in a 'good' area as soon as I could afford one, and to pay into a pension from the age of 23). Balanced against those are about 500 dumb-ass decisions to do all manner of stupid things which counter-balanced the sensible ones.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I've never really thought of Mick as self-made. Self-satisfied, yes. Self-opinionated, certainly. Self-aggrandising, undoubtedly; but what he has he got through having a job and milking a system which worked in his favour. When I go looking for a new role model, Mick needn't wait by the phone.
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Steady on now. Mick has a lot of good advice on gadgets, and a refreshingly straight-forward rebuttal of racism. :)
 
There is something deeply troubling about the idea of Ragaman looking after Mick. "Whatever Happened to Baby Mick?" would be a terrifying film.

Am I right in thinking Mick was a senior Local government officer? That makes him a state made man.
 
Mick P said:
Suzie

Trying to work out what is best in the long term is beyond the scope of most people and this thread alone is evidence of that. No one seems to be agreeing on anything.

The best solution is for everyone to look out for themselves and just get on with improving their own circumstances. Each of us can rise or fall according to our own abilities and willingness to work.

To put it bluntly, there is no way in a million years I want to trust some under achiever like Ragaman to look after me, I prefer to look after myself. If we all look after ourselves, some of us will go up and some of us will go down and that is the law of the universe.

Regards

Mick
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Your way of thinking is why Cameron and Osborne have been removed. I agreed with austerity measures, I could see where they were coming from with pension changes and making people work longer, even cuts in public services and thinking we are all in this together so economically it had to happen.
Then Cameron opened the can of worms that is the EU gravy train. This highlighted that cuts were only being made in this country but not to the EU financial bottomless pit and that anyone from the EU had the right to come here. So we were giving a subsidy (via the EU)to eastern Europe while making our own poor poorer and you wonder why they voted to leave.
 
Colin Barron said:
we are all in this together so economically it had to happen.
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Nonsense, it didn't have to happen at all. The austerity measures were down to a political decision made by a Tory/Lib Dem coalition government, whose only interest was bringing down the tax they paid and the money spent on the welfare state. They like getting richer, while watching everyone else get poorer. It is a central part of the Tory ideology. The Lib Dems might have started with a different vision, but they were political parasites who sold out for a taste of power.

Jack
 
jackbarron said:
Nonsense, it didn't have to happen at all. The austerity measures were down to a political decision made by a Tory/Lib Dem coalition government, whose only interest was bringing down the tax they paid and the money spent on the welfare state. They like getting richer, while watching everyone else get poorer. It is a central part of the Tory ideology. The Lib Dems might have started with a different vision, but they were political parasites who sold out for a taste of power.

Jack
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The public accepted austerity by electing the Tories in 2015. They did have the option of spend spend spend ED Balls, who promised an end to austerity right up to him being binned off at the 2015 election. We can see the result of poor government in Greece and in the not too distant future Italy, Portugal and France.
 
gassor said:
Are the voters in Europe and the US shifting to the right because wages and prospects have stagnated?
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Yep, the less money and hope people have for the future, the less generous they feel to everyone else. It's 'uman nature 'innit.
 
philsparks said:
I agree that Brexit and Trump seem to be the result of the current system in UK and USA not working for a whole section of society, unfortunately lashing out by voting for Brexit seems unlikely to solve things for those people.

There is another way - I was in Amsterdam last summer and was surprised how expensive many things felt (meals out, taxis, etc), gradually it dawned on me that I was paying for a service delivered by people and if these people wanted a decent wage then I had to pay for it. I'd guess that the minimum wage there is significantly higher than in UK.

So maybe there is at least part of an answer here, we can have our dead cheap DVD players, made in an automated factory, and the ex-factory workers will gradually migrate to the service sector. As long as we ensure we pay them healthy wages the wealth will continue to get shared around.

Just a thought
Phil
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Yes, you can have a massive service sector economy but under the current system it's not possible to do it with a large balance of payments defecit and money swanning off to tax havens.
 
Colin Barron said:
The public accepted austerity by electing the Tories in 2015. They did have the option of spend spend spend ED Balls, who promised an end to austerity right up to him being binned off at the 2015 election. We can see the result of poor government in Greece and in the not too distant future Italy, Portugal and France.
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Eh? Balls followed the Tories/Lib Dems on austerity. There was no mainstream anti-austerity option at the 2015 GE.
 
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