Way to go Greta
- Thread starter ff1d1l
- Start date
Marky-Mark
pfm Member
Greta Thunberg's congressional appearance amounted to telling congress to listen to the scientists. That's like telling a functional idiot to listen to his math teacher, or a hyped junkie to listen to his counselor.
Can't really blame her, though. You could've shown them this and they'd be on the phone with a lobbyist long before finishing it -
► 50% of animals gone since 1970
► 99% of Rhinos gone since 1914.
► 97% of Tigers gone since 1914.
► 90% of Lions gone since 1993.
► 90% of Sea Turtles gone since 1980.
► 90% of Monarch Butterflies gone since 1995.
► 90% of Big Ocean Fish gone since 1950.
► 80% of Antarctic Krill gone since 1975.
► 80% of Western Gorillas gone since 1955.
► 60% of Forest Elephants gone since 1970.
► 50% of Great Barrier Reef gone since 1985.
► 50% of Human Sperm Counts gone since 1950.
► 80% of Western Gorillas gone since 1955.
► 50% of Forest Bird Species will be gone in 50 years.
► 40% of Giraffes gone since 2000.
► 40% of ocean phytoplankton gone since 1950.
... http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/phytoplankton-population/
► Ocean plankton declines of 1% per year means 50% gone in 70 years, declines of more than 1%/yr are likely.
► Ocean plastic is killing bacteria that make 10% of our oxygen.
► 30% of Marine Birds gone since 1995.
► 70% of Marine Birds gone since 1950.
► 28% of Land Animals gone since 1970.
► 28% of All Marine Animals gone since 1970.
► If you are 15 years old, emissions went up 30% in your lifetime.
► If you are 30 years old, emissions went up 60% in your lifetime.
► After 30 years trying, solar and wind are < 3% of total world energy use.
► Solar panels produce 90% of power rating 15% of time
► Wind turbines produce 90% of power rating 25% of time.
► The Insurance Journal said they must go down 50% in 10 yrs to avoid 3.0° C.
► Stefan Rahmstorf said emissions must go down 100% in 20 yrs to avoid 2.0° C.
► Hans Schellnhuber said 5 of 13 major hothouse tipping points start below 2.0° C.
► When these 5 points are triggered, they trigger the other 8.
► This results in runaway hothouse, which can't be stopped or reversed once started.
► But we are also headed for runaway mass extinction, which can't be stopped or reversed once started.
► 10,000 years ago humans and livestock were 0.03% of land vertebrate biomass.
► Today humans and livestock are 98% of land vertebrate biomass.
► Human/livestock food production caused 80% of land vertebrate species extinctions.
► Petrochemical use grows 7X faster than human population.
-
Can't really blame her, though. You could've shown them this and they'd be on the phone with a lobbyist long before finishing it -
► 50% of animals gone since 1970
► 99% of Rhinos gone since 1914.
► 97% of Tigers gone since 1914.
► 90% of Lions gone since 1993.
► 90% of Sea Turtles gone since 1980.
► 90% of Monarch Butterflies gone since 1995.
► 90% of Big Ocean Fish gone since 1950.
► 80% of Antarctic Krill gone since 1975.
► 80% of Western Gorillas gone since 1955.
► 60% of Forest Elephants gone since 1970.
► 50% of Great Barrier Reef gone since 1985.
► 50% of Human Sperm Counts gone since 1950.
► 80% of Western Gorillas gone since 1955.
► 50% of Forest Bird Species will be gone in 50 years.
► 40% of Giraffes gone since 2000.
► 40% of ocean phytoplankton gone since 1950.
... http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/phytoplankton-population/
► Ocean plankton declines of 1% per year means 50% gone in 70 years, declines of more than 1%/yr are likely.
► Ocean plastic is killing bacteria that make 10% of our oxygen.
- https://futurism.com/the-byte/plastic-killing-bacteria-oxygen
- https://www.onegreenplanet.org/envi...-threat-tiny-life-in-major-need-of-your-help/
- https://www.irishtimes.com/news/env...y-impair-oceans-ability-to-trap-co2-1.3875434
- https://www.theguardian.com/environ...efore-they-reach-reproductive-age-study-finds
► 30% of Marine Birds gone since 1995.
► 70% of Marine Birds gone since 1950.
► 28% of Land Animals gone since 1970.
► 28% of All Marine Animals gone since 1970.
► If you are 15 years old, emissions went up 30% in your lifetime.
► If you are 30 years old, emissions went up 60% in your lifetime.
► After 30 years trying, solar and wind are < 3% of total world energy use.
► Solar panels produce 90% of power rating 15% of time
► Wind turbines produce 90% of power rating 25% of time.
- | DW 12 min
► The Insurance Journal said they must go down 50% in 10 yrs to avoid 3.0° C.
► Stefan Rahmstorf said emissions must go down 100% in 20 yrs to avoid 2.0° C.
► Hans Schellnhuber said 5 of 13 major hothouse tipping points start below 2.0° C.
► When these 5 points are triggered, they trigger the other 8.
► This results in runaway hothouse, which can't be stopped or reversed once started.
► But we are also headed for runaway mass extinction, which can't be stopped or reversed once started.
► 10,000 years ago humans and livestock were 0.03% of land vertebrate biomass.
► Today humans and livestock are 98% of land vertebrate biomass.
► Human/livestock food production caused 80% of land vertebrate species extinctions.
► Petrochemical use grows 7X faster than human population.
-
Joe P
Memory Alpha incarnate | mod; Shatner number = 2
Marky,
Still it needed to be said: "Hey, just for the F of it, why don't we try evidence-based policy for a while to see if it's better than moronic allegiance to political ideology."
Joe
Still it needed to be said: "Hey, just for the F of it, why don't we try evidence-based policy for a while to see if it's better than moronic allegiance to political ideology."
Joe
Marky-Mark
pfm Member
True. That's why I wrote 'can't blame her' - she's aware it's a waste of time, so at least put something on-in the record. She gave them the UN's latest confection that omits more than it includes. I honestly don't know how anyone expects anything from any politician beyond nothing or grief.
Anyway, I guess either you accept we aren't capable of dealing with this in any rational way or you're still arguing over it. Or you think we're headed for a horribly managed slow motion collapse. Relatively slow.
Rockmeister
pfm Member
My old Geology teacher foresaw all this in the 60's. He said that historically, you could always foresee when a species was in terminal decline, because its structure and habit abandoned the plain and usual, and started to experiment with decorative form and a broader cultural integration. Sure enough, within a million or so years, it's BOOM! Bye bye.
His conclusion was that the 60's preoccupation with outlandish hair and clothes (as opposed to the sensible tweed suit he sported) was a sure sign that the end is nigh.
In some ways, I now wonder if he didn't have some sort of handle on a basic truth there?
His conclusion was that the 60's preoccupation with outlandish hair and clothes (as opposed to the sensible tweed suit he sported) was a sure sign that the end is nigh.
In some ways, I now wonder if he didn't have some sort of handle on a basic truth there?
Marky-Mark
pfm Member
I feel sort of the same way, but it's the proliferation of food porn TV rather than hair and clothes.
vuk
\o/ choose anarchy
it's just a variation on a standard historical observation that's been made between decadence and the collapse of empire. i'm not a huge fan of interpreting current society/politics by these vague comparisons. it's not like we can't directly see and measure things.
that said, the obsession with self, combined with capitalism is not just at the core of rampant resource use but also now stands in the way of people even considering radical lifestyle changes. it's not hard to dictate that all car usage (with exception of services like police, hospital, etc.) will be banned in a year. alternatively, we can raise the price of fuel 100 times or make a steak cost $500. you could do that with a group of rational, educated beings. you can't do it in our world.
Last edited:
Wilky
pfm Member
Generally it's the other way around Steve.
Methane will give a blue flame, but only with a sufficient air/gas mix.
Another more worrying gas than farts.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49567197
Dave.
You're probably right Dave. My dim and receding memory of chemistry lessons from long ago suggests that a yellow flame indicates carbon monoxide. Hydrogen can't do that, methane can easily enough.
I've heard about SF6 gas, I know it's widely used. I thhink that there is now a requirement to contain it and recover it from old installations,there certainly is for some ozone depleting refrigerant gases. I know a fridge engineer I spoke to recently was commenting that he had to recycle the old gas he removed from units, and he had to account for what he'd used and what he'd recovered. If there were any large discrepancies he was liable to get his collar felt.
I've heard about SF6 gas, I know it's widely used. I thhink that there is now a requirement to contain it and recover it from old installations,there certainly is for some ozone depleting refrigerant gases. I know a fridge engineer I spoke to recently was commenting that he had to recycle the old gas he removed from units, and he had to account for what he'd used and what he'd recovered. If there were any large discrepancies he was liable to get his collar felt.
Rockmeister
pfm Member
Marky-Mark
pfm Member
I'm hopeful US media will squeeze in coverage between the erectile dysfunction and blood thinner ads.
vuk
\o/ choose anarchy
naomi klein is an important environmental activist and a very good scholar/journalist. "no logo" and "shock doctrine" are excellent books which everyone should read. this interview took place on democracy now a couple of days ago and is worth watching:
she does give me a touch of hope for the green new deal, but i fear she is putting on a very brave face.
she does give me a touch of hope for the green new deal, but i fear she is putting on a very brave face.
tuga
Legal Alien
Majority of Germans favour CO₂ tax – online survey
Fifty-five percent of Germans are in favour of the introduction of a CO₂ tax in Germany, according to a YouGov online survey commissioned by the business daily Handelsblatt. Thirty-nine percent of respondents are against it. Support was higher for proposals that included financial support for low and medium income households.
Fifty-five percent of Germans are in favour of the introduction of a CO₂ tax in Germany, according to a YouGov online survey commissioned by the business daily Handelsblatt. Thirty-nine percent of respondents are against it. Support was higher for proposals that included financial support for low and medium income households.
Marky-Mark
pfm Member
Governments will never work together or get around the classic Prisoner's Dilemma, no more than humans could ever divorce their intrinsic hyperbolic discount function until it was nearly time to hit the panic button. Right around now. We're just not capable of doing it any other way. Of course Trump is aware of climate change and wants a wall to keep fleeing migrants out. Governments not only expect horrific numbers of people to die, they're counting on it. If you could do one thing to prevent future extinction, say by 2030, it would be culling well more than half the earth's population. Not canvas shopping bags and carbon taxes. That's a stone cold fact.
tuga
Legal Alien
Is it just me or does the Trump retoric really have a whiff of USSR propaganda to it? Remember, when they were portraying the mother nation as a paradise of happiness whilst the outside world was suffering under the metallic grip of capitalism? Oh the irony...
By the way, Huxley was already speaking of a "Savage Reservation" back in the early '30s, and Atwood did mentioned the "The Colonies" half a century later.
Marky-Mark
pfm Member
I've been reading about the strikes. One recurring theme, but not quite so enthusiastic, is a feeling from some protesters that there isn't enough anger. I'm reading comparisons to the hong kong protests. Isn't that classic unrealistic expectation? I'd say the point of these organized protests wasn't to fix anything, it was about catharsis and self-validation. It was essentially a social media block party taken to the streets.
As far as America's protests, the left has never failed to fail in mobilizing movements that amount to anything since the 60's race and anti-war efforts. And there are plenty of issues that qualify: more war, universal healthcare, debt relief, sane family leave, criminal justice reform, on and on. And so anyone thinking these climate protests could accomplish much when it's really only more awareness raising ... I just don't know what to think.
As far as America's protests, the left has never failed to fail in mobilizing movements that amount to anything since the 60's race and anti-war efforts. And there are plenty of issues that qualify: more war, universal healthcare, debt relief, sane family leave, criminal justice reform, on and on. And so anyone thinking these climate protests could accomplish much when it's really only more awareness raising ... I just don't know what to think.
tuga
Legal Alien
Gandhi proved the effectiveness of non-violent resistance movements. The results are not immediate, though.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world
Unlike moderate middle-ground liberals, extremists tend to be very loud and fiery and brutal in their demonstrations.
Awareness puts pressure on the government but I agree that this may not be enough, particularly in not-so-democratic systems where the government puts corporative (and religious) lobbies' insterests above those of the electorate/population.
The only way to trigger change is through your vote. But this will also require an informed, intelligent and morally healthy electorate and a move away from the traditional binary choice.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world
Unlike moderate middle-ground liberals, extremists tend to be very loud and fiery and brutal in their demonstrations.
Awareness puts pressure on the government but I agree that this may not be enough, particularly in not-so-democratic systems where the government puts corporative (and religious) lobbies' insterests above those of the electorate/population.
The only way to trigger change is through your vote. But this will also require an informed, intelligent and morally healthy electorate and a move away from the traditional binary choice.
Joe
pfm Member
Big crowds are easy...the human ape seems to have a fondness for following. Almost sheeplike.
( Not that I am in any way comparing nor am I commenting . )
