Way to go Greta

[tuga]

That's a very hopeful video. But we're simply not on the same page. I'm going to post a link to someone's FB page. It's been shared over 50 thousand times by people of all walks, from normal Joes to climate scientists and doctors. It's been made into pamphlets that are distributed at Gretta Thunberg's "School Strikes." You should probably read it. It may help you understand why I'm a little confused when Thunberg talks about preventing what's coming. And yes, I'm from the USA. I disapprove of what my country does more each day, but I don't feel ashamed to say I'm an American. I also don't try to shame people from other countries. Happy reading.

https://www.facebook.com/SoilLifeQuadra/posts/10156656875720199

I wasn't shaming, merely pointing out that the "official" discourse over there is very much one of denial, which together with ruthless capitalism and limitless consumerism requires a lot more effort to accept the need for and embrace change.

Have you watched the film Wall-e?
The company that has dealt with humans for the last decades and is also the government is called Buy&Large for a reason. Look at the size of US houses and cars and pop-corn tubs and meal servings?

 

[tuga]

It may not be a coincidence that Greta comes from one of the most "advanced" countries on the planet.

 

[tuga]

To understand how advanced the Scandinavians are, watch this documentary about the public discussion which took place before and during the project of a nuclear disposal site:

 

[tuga]

For some reason society has decided to shun its experts and hand the steering wheel to a bunch of conservative zealots and lunatic populist politicians...

I think that the internet has to take some of the blame, together with this numbing individualist consumer society, poor citizenship education and ignorance in general.

 

[Rockmeister]

dear gintonic..Tuggy beat me to it

Like walking and cycling, consuming organic food and veggies, feeding oneself not getting stuffed, buying as little superfluous junk as possible, saving water and energy, re-using and re-cicling, and more importantly voting Green?

Funnily almost exactly that + No longer flying, selling off the worst polluting car, re using all household organic waste to compost with which we grow our own veg, bartering this around the neighbours, changing all lights to LEDs etc etc etc. Most recently we've set about planting trees (seems daft in this bit of Scotland, but we felt we should contribute anyway). Count now is 48 trees and 250 hedging plants to replace old fencing (and a pond). How am I doing? I have lots more but maybe you should start your list so we can compare?

 

[Marky-Mark]

I apologize in advance, but I can't take your arguments seriously. I don't mean it as a personal shot, but you're not arguing here in anything approaching good faith. You really expect me to believe that this -

Give the guy some slack, he's from the US of A

translates to this:

I wasn't shaming, merely pointing out that the "official" discourse over there is very much one of denial, which together with ruthless capitalism and limitless consumerism requires a lot more effort to accept the need for and embrace change.

and wasn't meant as a personal pejorative? That's a lot of subtext hiding in "cut the guy some slack. He's from [that shitty country]".

On top of that, you completely ignored my question in the post that started this sub-conversation when I quoted Greta Thunberg saying:

"And, of course, there's a lot of things you can do in your everyday life, but we cannot be focusing on these individual things you can do. We have to see the full picture."

By posting those very 'individual things' (that you claim to do) in order to elevate yourself above others in the conversation -

Like walking and cycling, consuming organic food and veggies, feeding oneself not getting stuffed, buying as little superfluous junk as possible, saving water and energy, re-using and re-cicling, and more importantly voting Green?

Perhaps if you spent less energy running around with a fully weaponized 'Like' gun impersonating Suzy Tweeter a discussion could take place.

 

[tuga]

dear gintonic..Tuggy beat me to it

Funnily almost exactly that + No longer flying, selling off the worst polluting car, re using all household organic waste to compost with which we grow our own veg, bartering this around the neighbours, changing all lights to LEDs etc etc etc. Most recently we've set about planting trees (seems daft in this bit of Scotland, but we felt we should contribute anyway). Count now is 48 trees and 250 hedging plants to replace old fencing (and a pond). How am I doing? I have lots more but maybe you should start your list so we can compare?

I'm way down on trees, only planted one as a child, and as an immigrant I have to fly home for Christmas.

We started growing veggies this year and are buying mostly organic produce.
Had the office replace an old VAG tdi with a modern low-consumption petrol vehicle.
Drive even more sensibly and only when absolutely necessary, otherwise cycle or walk, or take public transportation.
Lowered the winter thermostat setting by 2º C.
Only buy pre-packed veggies and fruit if there's no alternative.
Stopped using liquid soap.
Buy locally as much as possible (this means walking or cycling to shops) instead of ordering online.
Buy local produce as much as possible, UK or European (bananas are the exception).
Buy used often.
Cut down on (the children's) A&V streaming.
Council picks up organic food waste, which consists almost exclusively of left-overs because I am really strict on wasting edibles.

Next target is to replace househould cleaning chemicals with bio ones and maybe try Waitrose's bring your own container's cereal dispensing scheme (though it is quite a long bike ride to get there)...

And I have joined the Green Team at my wife's Uni College where I've helped with the triggering of some large-scale changes to buildings and to members' and staff's practices.

 

[tuga]

I apologize in advance, but I can't take your arguments seriously. I don't mean it as a personal shot, but you're not arguing here in anything approaching good faith. You really expect me to believe that this -



translates to this:



and wasn't meant as a personal pejorative? That's a lot of subtext hiding in "cut the guy some slack. He's from [that shitty country]".

On top of that, you completely ignored my question in the post that started this sub-conversation when I quoted Greta Thunberg saying:



By posting those very 'individual things' (that you claim to do) in order to elevate yourself above others in the conversation -



Perhaps if you spent less energy running around with a fully weaponized 'Like' gun impersonating Suzy Tweeter a discussion could take place.

Greta has helped raise awareness immensely.

Some of the electorate seems to have taken notice and hopefuly change will start happening soon.

 

[gintonic]

dear gintonic..Tuggy beat me to it

Funnily almost exactly that + No longer flying, selling off the worst polluting car, re using all household organic waste to compost with which we grow our own veg, bartering this around the neighbours, changing all lights to LEDs etc etc etc. Most recently we've set about planting trees (seems daft in this bit of Scotland, but we felt we should contribute anyway). Count now is 48 trees and 250 hedging plants to replace old fencing (and a pond). How am I doing? I have lots more but maybe you should start your list so we can compare?

You appear to be turning this into a cock waving thread, that I am not willing to participate in.

If you are really that interested PM me and I will send you a list.....If you are trying to bully me into entering this strange contest, then think again.

All I will say is amongst other things, that I have a ongoing financial commitment to pay for the planting of tree's and have reached about 1100 so far.

Let me remind you, that this thread has nothing to do with personal impact, but what Greta has achieved. Don't try and derail it with silly lists.........like a playground.........

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

so what do you DO? perhaps you can set us an example?

You appear to be turning this into a cock waving thread, that I am not willing to participate in.

If you are really that interested PM me and I will send you a list.....If you are trying to bully me into entering this strange contest, then think again.

All I will say is amongst other things, that I have a ongoing financial commitment to pay for the planting of tree's and have reached about 1100 so far...

With respect GT, you started it (see above).

The 1100 trees is, of course, admirable. Is this in order to offset your Porsche habit?

 

[gintonic]

Is this in order to offset your Porsche habit?

no the trees are in addition to paying to carbon offset the car. I have cut my mileage from about 15k per year to <6k per year as well. We have gone from being a two car family to a one car family.

 

[Chops54]

I'm listening to my music through solid state today instead of tubes.

 

[russel]

Possibly. However, why don't you (as in GT), marky mark, myself Rockmeister and (ideally) Joe Hutch do a conference call/podcast debate on this? Then people can see us, listen to what we say and make up their own minds?

Can we buy merch?, not watching if I can't buy Avole branded merch.

 

[tuga]

You appear to be turning this into a cock waving thread, that I am not willing to participate in.

If you are really that interested PM me and I will send you a list.....If you are trying to bully me into entering this strange contest, then think again.

All I will say is amongst other things, that I have a ongoing financial commitment to pay for the planting of tree's and have reached about 1100 so far.

Let me remind you, that this thread has nothing to do with personal impact, but what Greta has achieved. Don't try and derail it with silly lists.........like a playground.........

Ouch. Something not going well this morning?

 

[Joe P]

The solution to the problem isn't a given solution. It's solutions — plural.

Obviously, there are gazillions of things that people, companies and governments can do, from mandating improved fuel efficiency of cars and lighting, heating and cooling systems to consuming less to better carbon capture to switching to low and no carbon fuels.

But can I just say this, as it's an issue near and dear to me heart: Let's stop deforestation across the globe. Apart from the huge amount of carbon released when forests are slashed, burned and bulldozed and the subsequent loss of a natural and efficient carbon-capture machine, this insane practice is turning the planet into an inhabitable ball.

Joe

 

[vuk]

For some reason society has decided to shun its experts and hand the steering wheel to a bunch of conservative zealots and lunatic populist politicians...

I think that the internet has to take some of the blame, together with this numbing individualist consumer society, poor citizenship education and ignorance in general.

in the 60s and 70s corporations started realizing their "ideas" (or the ideas they liked) did not have much traction in academia and began to set up the propaganda think tanks that we seem to be swamped by these days. i watch the BBC america evening news a few times week and hardly a day foes by without a guest from the brookings institute or something like that. meanwhile, people like noam chomsky are only heard on the lecture circuit and small-scale independent news.

then, as you suggest, on the popular front, the internet has given everyone a sense that their opinion is as good as anyone else's because they can publish stuff in the public realm too. even on this form, people will casually dismiss a guy like stephen f. cohen because, even though he a is russia expert and emeritus prof (at princeton, ffs), because his assessments don't line up with their current ideology.

 

[gintonic]

Ouch. Something not going well this morning?

my day is perfectly fine thank you

 

[Joe P]

Vuk,

I can almost tell an institute's or think tank's political leanings from its name.

A few bidnit words (e.g., competitiveness, progress, enterprise, free) or some populist terms (e.g., heartland, heritage) and it's guaranteed to contain a 23.986 megaGauss conservative loony magnet.

Joe

 

[Rockmeister]

so what do you DO? perhaps you can set us an example?

I thought this was addressed to me? It quoted my post.
If you don't want lists lad, you shouldn't ask for them.

 

[gintonic]

you don't want lists lad

that is a rather threatening tone!