War declared, Israel v Palestine...
- Thread starter Darmok
- Start date
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
14
Since I have commented quite extensively on the Israeli action in Gaza I think I should do so on the Iranian / Israeli conflict.
There are a number of things to point out. The first is that theocracy is not a sound basis for government anywhere. Nor does it produce stability.
I do, of course, have major concerns about the direction of politics in Iran. As it moves increasingly to the right the risk of conflict is growing.
The same is true, though, in Israel where increasingly powerful right-wing theocratic groups have also helped destabilise the country and good government, resulting in the current regime that is as worrying as that in Tehran.
I make the point for the obvious reason that there are no governments worthy of support in this conflict.
Intervention has then to be to preserve a greater good, which is the existential right of states to be. I presume that this is the justification for UK and US intervention on behalf of Israel, although I do not hear that being said. If it is, there is a logic to it. Israel has a right to be.
However, the right to preserve this greater good is not restricted to Israel. Palestine also has a right to be. Israel appears to be denying that by its actions in both Gaza and the West Bank.
In that case I think support for Israel has to be conditional to match the condemnation of the actions of Iran. If it is to be supported Israel's government must respect boundaries determined in law and international agreements. The US and UK have the necessary obligation to make that clear.
This conflict has been created by the actions of two governments that have few redeeming characteristics. I support neither, but respect the rights of the nations and peoples they represent. The role of the international community is to find a higher good. David Cameron ‘s ‘Top gun' language this morning does not suggest we are in anything like that position as yet. That's as depressing as is the persistence of these theocratic governments that are promoting fear and terror.
The Israeli / Iranian war is between two governments undeserving of support. Unless we support a higher good, why are we intervening?
Posted on April 15 2024Since I have commented quite extensively on the Israeli action in Gaza I think I should do so on the Iranian / Israeli conflict.
There are a number of things to point out. The first is that theocracy is not a sound basis for government anywhere. Nor does it produce stability.
I do, of course, have major concerns about the direction of politics in Iran. As it moves increasingly to the right the risk of conflict is growing.
The same is true, though, in Israel where increasingly powerful right-wing theocratic groups have also helped destabilise the country and good government, resulting in the current regime that is as worrying as that in Tehran.
I make the point for the obvious reason that there are no governments worthy of support in this conflict.
Intervention has then to be to preserve a greater good, which is the existential right of states to be. I presume that this is the justification for UK and US intervention on behalf of Israel, although I do not hear that being said. If it is, there is a logic to it. Israel has a right to be.
However, the right to preserve this greater good is not restricted to Israel. Palestine also has a right to be. Israel appears to be denying that by its actions in both Gaza and the West Bank.
In that case I think support for Israel has to be conditional to match the condemnation of the actions of Iran. If it is to be supported Israel's government must respect boundaries determined in law and international agreements. The US and UK have the necessary obligation to make that clear.
This conflict has been created by the actions of two governments that have few redeeming characteristics. I support neither, but respect the rights of the nations and peoples they represent. The role of the international community is to find a higher good. David Cameron ‘s ‘Top gun' language this morning does not suggest we are in anything like that position as yet. That's as depressing as is the persistence of these theocratic governments that are promoting fear and terror.
Nick_G
pfm Member
To be fair, we're not of a mindset that increases divisions, stokes conflicts and escalates wars. The ultimate conclusion if left unchecked by those of us who want this madness to stop, is WWIII. If that happens, you, me, all our loved ones, and billions of others on the planet will die in a flash of nuclear fire, or radiation sickness.
But you carry on....
Last edited:
gavreid
Pretty Words...
[Got to have the last word...]
An Israeli source has been briefing the media that Israel cannot allow such a large attack – involving more than 300 drones and missiles, launched directly from Iran for the first time – to pass without some kind of response.
Some Israeli politicians argue that a powerful message needs to be sent so that Iran doesn’t repeat its action.
An Israeli source has been briefing the media that Israel cannot allow such a large attack – involving more than 300 drones and missiles, launched directly from Iran for the first time – to pass without some kind of response.
Some Israeli politicians argue that a powerful message needs to be sent so that Iran doesn’t repeat its action.
kensalriser
pfm Member
Nice to cite the source if you're going to paste words that are not your own.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I thought the big fat title linking to the source made it rather obvious
kensalriser
pfm Member
On my browser at least hovering on the link doesn't reveal the source and I'm not in the habit of clicking on unknown links. What's the problem with acknowledging the source in your post?
NeilK
pfm Member
It's from Richard Murphy's blog on https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I did.
Tony L
Administrator
<moderating>
I’ve cleaned up some ad hominem. I find the defending of genocide, child murder, imposed starvation, and violent apartheid from some quarters repugnant and would request those posters to take that content to far-right sites where that vile mindset belongs, but I don’t want to host bickering either so would request everyone raise their game.
I’ve cleaned up some ad hominem. I find the defending of genocide, child murder, imposed starvation, and violent apartheid from some quarters repugnant and would request those posters to take that content to far-right sites where that vile mindset belongs, but I don’t want to host bickering either so would request everyone raise their game.
notaclue
pfm Member
Sounds as if Israel will be bombing Iran very soon.
"...a retaliatory move could come “as soon as Monday.” In an unsourced report, Channel 12 claimed the war cabinet has decided to hit back “clearly and forcefully” against Iran with a response designed to send the message that Israel “will not allow an attack of that magnitude against it to pass without a reaction.”"
"...a retaliatory move could come “as soon as Monday.” In an unsourced report, Channel 12 claimed the war cabinet has decided to hit back “clearly and forcefully” against Iran with a response designed to send the message that Israel “will not allow an attack of that magnitude against it to pass without a reaction.”"
Darmok
pfm Member
I guess Israel has found an excuse for attacking Irans nuclear facilities, America will support them somehow.
Darmok
pfm Member
Interesting toon here from the Groans Ben Jennings...
www.theguardian.com
CiF will not be open.
Ben Jennings on fears over the perilous game being played between Israel and Iran – cartoon
Joe Biden is increasing pressure on Benjamin Netanyahu not to escalate the conflict
CiF will not be open.
Tony L
Administrator
Far too long to post in entirely here, but this is a superb account from Israeli academic Lee Mordechai. Really worth a read, especially the tiny minority here who still, even now, don’t see Netanyahu’s far-right racist rage and mass slaughter of innocents as what it so clearly is.
Full paper is here, though you need to register to see it:
Bearing Witness to the Israel-Gaza War (updated to 15 April 2024)
I, Lee Mordechai, a historian and an Israeli citizen, bear witness in this document, as events are unfolding, to the horrible situation in the Gaza Strip. I write my personal opinion out of a sense of double responsibility: as a citizen whose
www.academia.edu
Full Twitter thread formatted on ThreadReader here:
Thread by @LeeMordechai on Thread Reader App
@LeeMordechai: 1/ I’m an Israeli academic. My community is still too silent about the war in Gaza. Following my viral tweet last month, this is the updated & expanded version of how I see things based...…
threadreaderapp.com
gavreid
Pretty Words...
UN rapporteur says Israel and war sponsors ‘legally, morally responsible’ for Gaza’s reconstruction
Francesca Albanese, the UN special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territory, said Israel and those providing military and political support for its war on Gaza are legally and morally responsible for rebuilding the Palestinian enclave.In a post on social media outlining the projected $18.5bn damage inflicted on the territory by Israel’s war so far, Albanese said she considered the systematic destruction of housing and civilian infrastructure a “war crime, crime against humanity, and part of the genocide” in Gaza.
Israel, who is mainly “responsible for this destruction, as well as the countries that have supplied military, material and political support for the last Gaza war, bear the ‘legal and moral responsibility’ to ensure reparations”, Albanese said.
The UN special rapporteur was among other UN experts who earlier released a statement deploring Israel’s reported use of artificial intelligence and “related military directives” in Gaza, which have led “to an unprecedented toll on the civilian population, housing, vital services and infrastructure”.
Israeli attack on Gaza police vehicle kills eight, wounds children
Victims believed to be law enforcement officers tasked with protecting aid.
