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War declared, Israel v Palestine...

PaulMB said:
Yes, and Palestinian Arabs were attacking Palestinian Jews before 1948.

The "partition" into 2 states was decided by the UN, but the Arabs (Palestinian and non-Palestinian) rejected this decision. Which was a terrible mistake, based on Israel's Arab neighbours' opposition to the creation of a Palestinian state. They wanted it all to themselves, not as a Palestinian State for the Palestinians, but to carve up amongst themselves.
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Not sure what your point is?

My point is that Israel is a colonial settler state and always has been. Colonialism, regardless of who started it, is not a basis for equitability.
 
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droodzilla said:
It doesn't matter who "started it".

Nothing justifies Israel's industrial scale slaughter of civilians and the its commission of crimes against humanity on a historic scale.

Anyone who seeks to defend it is a monster.
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Agree entirely, but how do we deal with our politicians who are dragging us all into this genocide? They are making us all complicit in their crimes against humanity. I know exactly where I stand on it, but how do we collectively stop shit like Sunak, Starmer, Cameron, Hoyle and the rest of the vile UK establishment and its press and institutions using our wealth and resources to enable a genocidal racist apartheid state butcher children, bomb hospitals and starve millions as part of what is increasingly apparent as an ethnic cleansing?

I feel totally helpless. I have grown to detest the UK. A nation without morality, decency or integrity. A racist far-right imperialist shit-heap in well deserved decline.
 
ks.234 said:
All we can do is join a political party and speak out at local party meetings, go on protests, write to our MP, complain to the BBC, and sign as many petitions as possible.
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And reject totally and completely all accusations of "antisemitism" for any well-deserved criticism of Israel. The term "antisemitism" has become meaningless because of the way the Jewish lobby has been weaponising it.
 
droodzilla said:
Israel always insists that it should be treated like any other country.

It's defenders call anyone who deviates from impartiality an anti-Semite.

OK, then.

If any other country in the Middle East had done what Israel has done in the last six months, Western military forces would have intervened a long time ago.

When do we start bombing Tel Aviv?

When do we give Netanyahu the Saddam Hussein treatment?
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What bad actions in the form of ethnic cleansing prompted the NATO intervention against Serbia? How does what was happening in Kossovo compare with what is happening in Gaza?
 
DonQuixote99 said:
What bad actions in the form of ethnic cleansing prompted the NATO intervention against Serbia? How does what was happening in Kossovo compare with what is happening in Gaza?
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The Balkan war is altogether another subject. Serbs and indeed other analysts will tell you that the negotiations leading up to the split of Yugoslavia were highly suspect, including the mysterious death of Milosovic in prison which prevented him from testifying what he knew. What followed was pretty awful but what preceded it, including the status of Kossovo, may never be properly documented by a Western account of the history of the war.
 
www.bracknellnews.co.uk

Ships to leave Gaza with 240 tons of undelivered aid, Cyprus says

Around 100 tons of aid had been unloaded when World Central Kitchen, an international charity, suspended operations after several workers were…
www.bracknellnews.co.uk www.bracknellnews.co.uk

An official in Cyprus says aid ships that arrived in Gaza this week will return to the Mediterranean island nation carrying some 240 tons of undelivered aid after an air strike killed seven aid workers.
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Mission accomplished.
 
droodzilla said:
Nothing justifies Israel's industrial scale slaughter of civilians and the its commission of crimes against humanity on a historic scale.
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Is it is guilt that is behind the West’s justification of Israel’s crimes in Gaza?

Guilt about the West’s past history of antisemitism that created pogroms, the Balfour Agreement, the Holocaust, then Israel itself?

Perhaps we fear that we can’t call out Israel's crimes of the present without confronting our own crimes of the past?
 
ks.234 said:
Is it is guilt that is behind the West’s justification of Israel’s crimes in Gaza?

Guilt about the West’s past history of antisemitism that created pogroms, the Balfour Agreement, the Holocaust, then Israel itself?

Perhaps we fear that we can’t call out Israel's crimes of the present without confronting our own crimes of the past?
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I imagine that what you say is probably a major factor, however my opinion is that latent racism in the West that views Arabs as somewhat inferior and Israelis as being a bit 'whiter' comes into play.

We should not use historical antisemitism as a reason to turn a blind eye to the clear genocide and war crimes being committed, it is 2024 not the 1930's.

The Guardian article above should convince anyone that Netanyahu and his IDF kill squads should end up in The Hague.
 
MartinC said:
I imagine that what you say is probably a major factor, however my opinion is that latent racism in the West that views Arabs as somewhat inferior and Israelis as being a bit 'whiter' comes into play.

We should not use historical antisemitism as a reason to turn a blind eye to the clear genocide and war crimes being committed, it is 2024 not the 1930's.

The Guardian article above should convince anyone that Netanyahu and his IDF kill squads should end up in The Hague.
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Let's not forget that Israel treats Christians in a similar manner too.
 
ks.234 said:
Is it is guilt that is behind the West’s justification of Israel’s crimes in Gaza?

Guilt about the West’s past history of antisemitism that created pogroms, the Balfour Agreement, the Holocaust, then Israel itself?

Perhaps we fear that we can’t call out Israel's crimes of the present without confronting our own crimes of the past?
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I think that's part of it, yes.

Instead of dealing with our own responsibility for the Holocaust, and the centuries of persecution of Jewish people that led up to it, we chose to move the "problem" somewhere else. With terrible consequences for the Palestinians.

We are witnessing the ultimate failure of that approach (I believe Israel in its current form will not survive recent events).
 
Blinken's statement. 🤐

Short and paper thin. The people murdered were "heroes", it was an "incident", no condemnation, they have "urged" Israel to investigate.

Meanwhile, here's another $18 billion of free fighter jets...
 
MartinC said:
I imagine that what you say is probably a major factor, however my opinion is that latent racism in the West that views Arabs as somewhat inferior and Israelis as being a bit 'whiter' comes into play.

We should not use historical antisemitism as a reason to turn a blind eye to the clear genocide and war crimes being committed, it is 2024 not the 1930's.

The Guardian article above should convince anyone that Netanyahu and his IDF kill squads should end up in The Hague.
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I hope it is clear to all that I am not using history to justify anything going on in Gaza right now. Quite the opposite in fact.
 
ks.234 said:
Is it is guilt that is behind the West’s justification of Israel’s crimes in Gaza?

Guilt about the West’s past history of antisemitism that created pogroms, the Balfour Agreement, the Holocaust, then Israel itself?

Perhaps we fear that we can’t call out Israel's crimes of the present without confronting our own crimes of the past?
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Some of that, but also quite clear that there is plenty of this at play https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/how-should-we-talk-about-the-israel-lobbys-power.html, which I have posted before.
 
notaclue said:
Blinken's statement. 🤐

Short and paper thin. The people murdered were "heroes", it was an "incident", no condemnation, they have "urged" Israel to investigate.
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It was very hard to stomach the IDF's unctuous apology for the "incident". They haven't apologised for murdering 30,000 people, starving those that are left and blowing up their hospitals. Seven deaths are a drop in the ocean for the IDF. Many, many more aid workers have been killed by the IDF and this will simply continue.
 
les24preludes said:
It was very hard to stomach the IDF's unctuous apology for the "incident". They haven't apologised for murdering 30,000 people, starving those that are left and blowing up their hospitals. Seven deaths are a drop in the ocean for the IDF. Many, many more aid workers have been killed by the IDF and this will simply continue.
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and journalists, academics etc etc
 
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