The Lib Dems are the single biggest obstacle to remaining in the EU. They are willing to see Johnson deliver no deal if it means another 10 MPs.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...king-article-50-brexit?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
By not working with Labour the Lib-Dems are essentially guaranteeing a Tory/Brexit Party win.Lib Dems in ‘doing exactly the right thing rather than sitting on the fence’ shock. Who’d have thought it? If Labour had taken that position three years ago they might not be heading for what may well be their worst GE result in history!
What’s more important to you:Lib Dems in ‘doing exactly the right thing rather than sitting on the fence’ shock. Who’d have thought it? If Labour had taken that position three years ago they might not be heading for what may well be their worst GE result in history!
And once again.....if Labour had taken the current position of the Lib-Dems three years ago they’d have been slaughtered by the media and lost big in the election of 2017.Lib Dems in ‘doing exactly the right thing rather than sitting on the fence’ shock. Who’d have thought it? If Labour had taken that position three years ago they might not be heading for what may well be their worst GE result in history!
First, I don't think the LibDems are 'doing the right thing' because what the 'right thing' is, is very context dependent. If their stated position results in the re-election of the Tories, then no amount of doublethink can excuse it. There is a considerable basis for arguing that, at this very moment, the 'right thing' is to get behind Labour. Given the LibDem's pride in 'practical politics' I'm slightly surprised they refuse to even acknowledge this possibility.Lib Dems in ‘doing exactly the right thing rather than sitting on the fence’ shock. Who’d have thought it? If Labour had taken that position three years ago they might not be heading for what may well be their worst GE result in history!
Farage might still scupper this. It's hard to contemplate his ego being content to just sit and watch as Johnson delivers his bastard. Imagine a whole GE campaign without his gurning chops popping up everywhere, I bet he can't.
ERG hardliner Andrew Bridgen just said “The last thing the E.U. want is the people of Ireland looking over the border into the land of milk and honey in the North and having Brexit contagion spread”.
What’s more important to you:
1. Stopping Brexit?
2. Labour doing badly?
The LD position might be “the right thing” in the abstract but it blows the fragile, emerging anti-Conservative alliance sky-high. It might get them a few more seats but, elsewhere it will split the vote and gift seats to the Conservatives. Therefore, it massively increases the risk of an outright hard-right Conservative majority and a hard Brexit.
Great post. Absolutely this.If there is a General Election soon, then I may reluctantly vote Labour, as going on the history of previous GEs, they would appear to be the best way of opposing the Tories here. The Lib Dems have done well before, but not in the last election.
However, this brings me to the fact that the sat nav in the clown car has been hijacked by the far-right for too long, and the opposition has not done enough to protect our democracy. Carole Cadwalladr has a list of failures in this regard:
Failed to uphold rule of law.
Failed to demand authorities do their job.
Failed to ask questions in parliament.
Failed to take any notice of entire smorgasbord of criminality & interference
Failed to back DCMS committee's bid to hold Cummings to account.
Failed to back its call for public inquiry.
Failed to back its attempt to call Zuckerberg to parliament.
Failed to ask questions about Arron Banks & Russia.
Failed to demand answers from Farage
To which I would add:
Failed to publicly speak up and denounce the far-right
Failed to back Remain unequivocally right from the start
By doing the above, failed to protect jobs, livelihoods, and the economy
Failed to defend our reputation on the world stage
Failed to protect and stand up for minorities
Some of these are a result of the points on Carole's list. I really should be feeling good about voting Lbour, but because of the above it's with a heavy heart. We've had more effective opposition from Carole Cadwalladr herself, Led By Donkeys, and Gina Miller, to name a few.
I suspect had there not been these failures the Conservatives would have been brought down by now and we wouldn't be in this dangerous mess. I wonder why they happened?
That’s what proved so damaging for Labour. They made it quite apparent they'd be the ones telling the public that they would decide which Brexit horse to ride (once they’d done the sums on their potential wins and losses in the Gammon constituencies). Then followed three years of vacillation so that one minute you thought you had understood their position then it was something different the next day. You will see the consequences of that ‘strategy’ at the GE, especially up here. We know what the Tories stood for and they’re getting the chop but Labour will get the same in Scotland because we didn’t have a ****ing clue what they stood for!In answer to the first question; stopping Brexit, and I mean stopping it, not some unbearably naff Corbyn/McCluskey fence fudge. Just revoke A50 and remain as any alternate option makes us all worse off. The gammons have never been the Lib Dems’ issue, they are not a party riddled with ugly English nationalism so it is right for them to rise above it.
By saying that I agree the LDs need to play a very careful game here, they need to make their moral position (pro-EU/anti-Brexit) fundamentally clear, but also be pragmatic, i.e. if holding Corbyn/McCluskey to a second referendum with remain as the preferred option then they need to take it, but they also need assurance from a profoundly slippery Labour party that is what is on the table and the Labour party will unequivocally throw their weight behind a campaign to stay in the EU. The time for fudging and fence sitting is long over. The LDs will take mainly moderate Tory seats and they clearly know this, so their firm remain argument is right. If their overtly anti-Brexit stance is a threat to Labour then that is an issue for Labour to address with a clearer anti-Brexit/anti-English nationalist policy, not for the Lib Dems to worry about.