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Vast Brexit thread merge part I

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Disappointed to see a largely empty HoC for the Grieve amendment. This one really needs to pass as it will help expose government lies and also flush out the real predictions (e.g. Yelowhammer) as to what Brexit will cost us.

Guardian now reporting Grieve amendment has passed : )
 
You're right of course, Gav, though only for the first 15 years as an ex-pat. The logic seems to be that after 15 years, your interest in the old country is evidently diminished, so you're not entitled to the franchise. I think it is hard, nay impossible to apply the same logic to a referendum which may have the effect of making your very existence in your chosen place open to considerable doubt.

I've forgotten the history of it now, but it seems very strange that this group was denied a say by Cameron, who supposedly wanted to remain, they could also have allowed EU residents in the UK a vote but again chose not to?
 
Guardian now reporting Grieve amendment has passed : )

Great, but I really can't see the point. Parliament is being suspended for 5 weeks from tonight, regardless and it may show up the government as not telling the truth but at the moment, Jacob Rees-Mogg could stand in the middle of Parliament Square, stark b**lock naked and strangling a puppy whilst singing the Horst Wessel Lied and they'd still be ten points ahead in the polls.
 
Now if the situation requires a Bercow to intervene in favour of [whomever] in order to save a situation from becoming totally uncontrollable, then I suppose the system itself is flawed.
Are you referring to Iraq?
 
Seeker I definitely agree with your POV.

.. but at the moment, Jacob Rees-Mogg could stand in the middle of Parliament Square, stark b**lock naked and strangling a puppy whilst singing the Horst Wessel Lied and they'd still be ten points ahead in the polls.

Hmm, something dereadfully familiar about that simile - ah yes, it's Trump on his campaign trail and the ghastly comment re: shooting someone on Fifth Ave.


Also, exactly, why as a political project the ERG must be upbraided and stopped with all celerity.
 
Guardian now reporting Grieve amendment has passed : )
Government cries FOUL!!!

Scope of the information requested disproportionate and unprecedented’, says government
The government has responded to the passage of the vote earlier compelling the release of the government’s Operation Yellowhammer document and No 10’s private prorogation correspondence.
 
Of all the unexpected things that has happened over the last three years, this is one of the most surprising by Polly Toynbee.

If Boris Johnson quits, MPs should back Jeremy Corbyn to avoid no deal

Stephen
Hmmm: "unthinking, knee-jerk Corbynphobia", which now risks pitching us out of the EU without a deal? Where on earth could such stupidity have come from? "The notion of Corbyn the bogeyman has taken on a life of its own". Weird! But just one of those things I guess. No-one to blame, certainly no lessons to be learned.
 
Great, but I really can't see the point. Parliament is being suspended for 5 weeks from tonight, regardless and it may show up the government as not telling the truth but at the moment, Jacob Rees-Mogg could stand in the middle of Parliament Square, stark b**lock naked and strangling a puppy whilst singing the Horst Wessel Lied and they'd still be ten points ahead in the polls.

It should give the opposition parties, Led By Donkeys etc plenty of election material for attack ads, party political broadcasts etc. The next election will be the ugliest in UK history, the more ammo those standing against the far-right popularism of Johnson and Farage have the better IMHO.
 
It should give the opposition parties, Led By Donkeys etc plenty of election material for attack ads, party political broadcasts etc. The next election will be the ugliest in UK history, the more ammo those standing against the far-right popularism of Johnson and Farage have the better IMHO.

I hope you're right but it won't be Led by Donkeys that'll win it, it'll be because the Conservatives have failed to prove their gammony credentials and the Brexit Party split the vote.
 
Great, but I really can't see the point. Parliament is being suspended for 5 weeks from tonight, regardless and it may show up the government as not telling the truth but at the moment, Jacob Rees-Mogg could stand in the middle of Parliament Square, stark b**lock naked and strangling a puppy whilst singing the Horst Wessel Lied and they'd still be ten points ahead in the polls.
This is the clearest analysis of Johnson's strategy (and it is strategy, rather than tactics) I've seen:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...rliament-brexit-power-boris-johnson-impotence

It's not pretty, but it does present the opposition with a Trump-style dilemma: the more outraged we become, the firmer the resolve of Johnson's supporters.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think we need to think carefully before we go all-in on a culture war with these far-right bastards (doh!).
 
Hmm, something dereadfully familiar about that simile - ah yes, it's Trump on his campaign trail and the ghastly comment re: shooting someone on Fifth Ave.

I wasn't aware but given a similar problem of populism both ideas of the Atlantic, it's only fair to use the same :)
 
He's not a ****. He's a very naughty boy.

I'm sure he'll get back to helping little old ladies across the road, which is more his forte.

When all this **** is over.
 
I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think we need to think carefully before we go all-in on a culture war with these far-right bastards (doh!).

Without wishing to stoke the (somewhat false) idea of Cummings as some sort of Megamind (*), this letter from the Graun made me think a bit.

Dominic Cummings’ meme-generating media outrage strategy is working

Every reporting of Mr Johnson’s studied ineptitude inflates populism with the oxygen of publicity and creates the narrative that services that misled anger. We will have to do better than to do the bidding to Dominic Cummings’ media strategy.

* He puts me in mind of this chap.
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...Jacob Rees-Mogg could stand in the middle of Parliament Square, stark b**lock naked and strangling a puppy whilst singing the Horst Wessel Lied and they'd still be ten points ahead in the polls.

A ridiculous scenario, Jacob Rees-Mogg would never strangle a puppy, he would get someone from below stairs to do that kind of menial task.
 
Hmmm: "unthinking, knee-jerk Corbynphobia", which now risks pitching us out of the EU without a deal? Where on earth could such stupidity have come from? "The notion of Corbyn the bogeyman has taken on a life of its own". Weird! But just one of those things I guess. No-one to blame, certainly no lessons to be learned.
I love the bit about Seamus Milne's extended holiday making it easier for Corbyn to work with other parties. Also, how come only Milne has a "coterie"?
 
I hope you're right but it won't be Led by Donkeys that'll win it, it'll be because the Conservatives have failed to prove their gammony credentials and the Brexit Party split the vote.

I think many (and for that matter Dominic Cummings) underestimate just how many moderate middle-class pro-EU working-age Tories there are who are hugely against what the party now stands for. Unless they really can compete in working class Labour areas my guess is they will go noticeably backwards from where they are now as they’ll lose a good few seats to the Lib Dems and also in Scotland. The Tories alone can’t win on their current strategy, though look set to be largest party. Either Sky or C4 News mentioned that by the Tories own internal polling they are set to be a good 35 seats or more behind securing a majority, i.e. no stronger position than they are right now after their far-right purge. Give the opposition some serious ammo to expose their blatant lies and corruption and hopefully that can be pushed back further.

Annoyingly Farage and his billionaire disaster-capitalist pimp hold the keys as they may be able to game our hopelessly flawed electoral system in some kind of pact.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...rliament-brexit-power-boris-johnson-impotence...

I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think we need to think carefully before we go all-in on a culture war with these far-right bastards (doh!).

An opinion poll earlier this year found 54% of respondents agreeing that “Britain needs a strong ruler willing to break the rules”. There is, it would seem, a sizeable constituency for playing loose with the constitution.

If that is true, how does a party who prides itself in being as democratic as is possible tip the balance in their favour at the next GE?
 
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