Vast Brexit thread merge part I

[tuga]

Just read this at the Wam.
Hilarious!

Nigel Farage walks into a pub and says, I'll have a pint of beer please. The barman pours a pint, then throws it all over Farage.

'What did you do that for?' says Farage, drenched to the skin.

'Because you're in a metaphor which illustrates the stupidity of asking for something but not stipulating how you fecking wanted it delivered, you frog-faced sniveling ****!'

'But I'm still thirsty, so I want a pint -- this time in a glass!' says Farage.

'You can't ask again!' said the barman.

'Why not?' sniveled Farage.

'Democracy.' says the barman.

 

[tuga]

It is if you want Johnson as PM.

Stephen

No, actually I want Caroline Lucas.

 

[ks.234]

But wot about the ‘hard centre’ as well as ‘the extremists on both sides’? Jeremy won’t have a dead branch to perch on!
There’s no Brexit that will preserve jobs and living standards to the same standard as EU membership, so what’s his game?

So don’t vote for it, vote Remain.

 

[stephen bennett]

Unless Labour is actively campaigning to remain with real conviction from the leader downwards it is not a ‘remain’ party. As such how can the likes of the LDs, SNP, Greens, PC etc trust it? Fence sitting is simply not an option here.

Because it will lead to a Johnson Government and a hard Brexit.

Labour has offered a second ref. Isn't that what Swinson says she wants? Working with Labour is the only way to achieve that.

Stephen

 

[stephen bennett]

No, actually I want Caroline Lucas.

I want a Ferrari and Sandra Bullock round for tea. That's possibly more likely to happen ...

Stephen

 

[Stunsworth]

That, and he knows he can’t even lead his party as it is so fractured both internally within its MPs and via the finance received from archaic trade union barons. Fence sitting it is then. Fascism: a good or a bad thing? We’ll be having no opinion on that thank you...

Well, this is grade 1 'whataboutism', but I'm guessing if there was a referendum about capital punishment Labour would be prepared to favour one side over the other. Anyhow let's see what happens at the conference.

 

[tuga]

I want a Ferrari and Sandra Bullock round for tea. That's possibly more likely ...

Stephen

Not more, but just as likely

Unlike the Leavers I know that you can't always get what you want...

 

[ks.234]

Staying ‘neutral’ in the face of white English nationalism and an economic downturn that will hit the very poorest in society the hardest is a disgusting position IMHO. Brexit was only ever about removing EU tax legislation for the very richest and removing employment rights and civil liberties from those below. Neutrality is simply not an option.

Sticking two fingers up to more than half the population is fundamentally undemocratic.

 

[wacko]

I'm OK with Corbyn's position on Brexit: give information (not lies) and let the people decide if they want that form of Brexit or to Remain.

 

[ks.234]

Unless Labour is actively campaigning to remain with real conviction from the leader downwards it is not a ‘remain’ party. As such how can the likes of the LDs, SNP, Greens, PC etc trust it? Why on earth would the LDs (or anyone else) deny remainers a proper platform in a GE? If Labour wants their vote it needs to get its arse off the fence.

No. Labour is not a Remain party. Labour is The Referendum Party.

Revoke is fundamentally undemocratic. A Referendum is the only democratic way forward.

 

[Stunsworth]

I'm OK with Corbyn's position on Brexit: give information (not lies)...

So presumably, since Labour don't have a view on the result of any referendum, that would include information about the advantages of leave as well as remain.

 

[tuga]

Staying ‘neutral’ in the face of white English nationalism and an economic downturn that will hit the very poorest in society the hardest is a disgusting position IMHO. Brexit was only ever about removing EU tax legislation for the very richest and removing employment rights and civil liberties from those below. Neutrality is simply not an option.

And offering food and health industries in a platter to the US multis.

 

[Stunsworth]

Revoke is fundamentally undemocratic. A Referendum is the only democratic way forward.

Revoke will only happen if the Lib-Dems for a government, and that ain't going to happen.

 

[maxflinn]

Swinson's disgusting refusal to cooperate with Labour to try to ensure the Tories/Brexit Party don't prevail at the next GE means a hard Brexit is more likely.

And she says the LDs are a remain party

 

[tuga]

No. Labour is not a Remain party. Labour is The Referendum Party.

Revoke is fundamentally undemocratic. A Referendum is the only democratic way forward.

Who cares. Brexit is fundamentally a self-harming stupid project. It's so difficult to implement that the Union and the EU have already wasted bucketloads of money and haven't moved an inch...
It should never have been put to the people, because they're clueless and easily mislead by the biased right-wing media, which incidentally is owned by those with vested interests not in the public good but their on pockets.

Revoke I say.

 

[wacko]

So presumably, since Labour don't have a view on the result of any referendum, that would include information about the advantages of leave as well as remain.

The consequences of leaving the EU was always too complex for a simple Referendum and having another one is not ideal.
But the only democratic way out of this maze is to have a vote on the actual terms of Brexit or to Remain.
Labour's position seems mature to me but I agree it is not as easy as slogans on the side of a bus.

 

[Tony L]

Well, this is grade 1 'whataboutism', but I'm guessing if there was a referendum about capital punishment Labour would be prepared to favour one side over the other. Anyhow let's see what happens at the conference.

I don’t agree. To my eyes Brexit represents exactly the same white nationalism, scapegoating and division that led to the rise of fascism in the early 1930s. The alarm bells are deafening, the flag-waving identical. This is history repeating and any credible party should recognise the signals and take the most forceful moral stance imaginable against it. Labour have entirely failed to do that. The party is cowardly and inward-looking. It is missing in inaction. It is a disgrace.

 

[maxflinn]

Revoke I say.

This is not a realistic choice.

Brexit will go ahead unless there's another referendum and a majority vote to remain.

If there's a GE before Brexit then any party wishing to remain ought to work with any other party that also wants another referendum in order to stop the Tories/Brexit Party from winning, as if they win there will not be another referendum, and a hard Brexit is assured.

The LDs, the supposed party of remain refuse to do this.

Anyone wishing to remain should be pressuring them to do so.

 

[tuga]

This is not a realistic choice.

Brexit will go ahead unless there's another referendum and a majority vote to remain.

If there's a GE before Brexit then any party wishing to remain ought to work with any other party that also wants another referendum in order to stop the Tories/Brexit Party from winning, as if they win there will not be another referendum, and a hard Brexit is assured.

The LDs, the supposed party of remain refuse to do this.

Anyone wishing to remain should be pressuring them to do so.

The LibDems won't be able to get a majority on their own.

They will need the SNP, the PC and the Greens to form a government, and they'll almost certainly need Labour's MP votes too. We'll probably only get a referendum, though one without no-deal as option.

 

[cooky1257]

I try not to let my judgement of leave voters be coloured by the more extreme brexiteer behaviour/utterances. We don't have 17 million knuckle dragging fascists in the country in the same way we don't have 16 million Lib dems. Labour's position as the referendum party is sound imo. We need a second referendum where the choice can be an informed one rather than the xenophobic millionaire financed lies one we had 3 years ago.