advertisement


Ukraine III

Status
Not open for further replies.
TheDecameron said:
Putin held a Trump-style patriotic rally today, with a quote that may have been lost in translation?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...offensives-falter-live?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
The Russian leader also hailed the actions of the country’s military fighting in Ukraine, by paraphrasing a Bible saying.

“There is no greater love than giving up one’s soul for one’s friends”.

TQ0rjSl.jpg


Do you want war, do you want total war?
Click to expand...
I wonder if Trump will join him for one of these rallies?
 
TheDecameron said:
Putin held a Trump-style patriotic rally today, with a quote that may have been lost in translation?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...offensives-falter-live?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
The Russian leader also hailed the actions of the country’s military fighting in Ukraine, by paraphrasing a Bible saying.

“There is no greater love than giving up one’s soul for one’s friends”.

TQ0rjSl.jpg


Do you want war, do you want total war?
Click to expand...

I would call it a Hitler rally for the 21st Century. Puffy head is living the fascist dictator dream.
 
I have read every post in the now three parts of the Ukraine thread.

A thought that has long since lodged with me is that after a while every country gets the government it deserves. A revolution may come along, but after a while the government will reflect a nation's basic cultural instinct. In the UK we have the government we deserve. In France they have the government they deserve. In Ukraine they have the government they deserve ... In Russia they have the government they deserve!

So without wanting to be seen as anti-Russian, or even perhaps a racist, I would say that it is no surprise that many Russians fully support Putin in the invasion of Ukraine. Even in fifty years this will not change. When Putin is no longer leader of Russia, the situation will arise again. All the small countries that border Russia need to be very careful to be able to defend themselves against Russia - as Ukraine seems to be doing with considerable and perhaps, for some, surprising success.

Our newest Russian correspondent - loyal Russian though he appears to be - needs to remember that while we may not understand the nuances of Russia, we - or many of us outside Russia, and I speak as half Norwegian - have a massive distrust not just of the Russian government [at any stage in history and today], but also the motives the majority of the Russian populace. The hope is for a successful Ukrainian defeat of the Russian invasion army. If the Russian army do win the invasion, Russia will be facing a long Ukrainian civil unrest that will tie down a large military force for perhaps decades. Tragic for the people of Ukraine and very costly for Russia. I have known two Russians who came from Estonia and Latvia as work colleagues [working in England]. Both could be quite fun, but I would have trusted neither further than I could throw them.

On a lighter note, Norwegians are not particularly noted for being humorous, but they can manage a rather dry irony!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60786467

Never mind impounding a Russian Oligarch's boat. Just refuse to sell it fuel!

Keep safe, and KBO [Churchill saying].

Best wishes from George
 
Last edited:
TheDecameron said:
It gets fruitier, the attack on Ukraine is a “struggle against sin and pressure to hold gay parades”-


https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...offensives-falter-live?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


They came only days after he told the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kirill, that the concept of a “just war” was obsolete since wars are never justifiable and that pastors must preach peace, not politics.

Those comments, during a video call with Kirill on Wednesday, were an indirect criticism of the patriarch’s apparent defence of the war. Kirill, who is close to the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, has seemingly justified the invasion by describing it as part of a struggle against sin and pressure from liberal foreigners to hold “gay parades”.
Click to expand...

Really? This looks like a gay parade to me:
090805-putin-hlarg-133p.jpg
 
paulfromcamden said:
On the one hand it's pure comedy. On the other it's an absolutely awful time to be Russian and gay.

I feel obliged to point out that Ukraine also has a pretty atrocious record on LGBT rights (hopefully getting better as it orients itself towards Europe).
Click to expand...
Not to make light of it but it just illustrates the farcical zealotry that bends a whole culture out of shape. It is of course straight out of the Goebbels recipe book- identify your scapegoats and pour your fury and your inadequacy onto them.

What perturbs me is that Putin is expanding this from territorial theft to an ideological war that lacks geographical boundaries. I’m not invoking Godwin’s law here, I literally believe he is the greatest threat to Europe since Hitler and Stalin.
 
TheDecameron said:
It gets fruitier, the attack on Ukraine is a “struggle against sin and pressure to hold gay parades”-


https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...offensives-falter-live?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


They came only days after he told the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kirill, that the concept of a “just war” was obsolete since wars are never justifiable and that pastors must preach peace, not politics.

Those comments, during a video call with Kirill on Wednesday, were an indirect criticism of the patriarch’s apparent defence of the war. Kirill, who is close to the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, has seemingly justified the invasion by describing it as part of a struggle against sin and pressure from liberal foreigners to hold “gay parades”.
Click to expand...
Russian Orthodox Church leadership is fully in the pocket of the Kremlin. How can we tell? It's the WATCHES!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17622820

Importantly, Putinism is based on an idea that the Russian nation is special and superior because of its' deep spirituality and religiosity and strong opposition to gay rights. In Russian it's a difficult to translate phrase - духовные скрепы - spiritual bonds.
 
George J said:
I have read every post in the now three parts of the Ukraine thread.

A thought that has long since lodged with me is that after a while every country gets the government it deserves. A revolution may come along, but after a while the government will reflect a nation's basic cultural instinct. In the UK we have the government we deserve. In France they have the government they deserve. In Ukraine they have the government they deserve ... In Russia they have the government they deserve!

So without wanting to be seen as anti-Russian, or even perhaps a racist, I would say that it is no surprise that many Russians fully support Putin in the invasion of Ukraine. Even in fifty years this will not change. When Putin is no longer leader of Russia, the situation will arise again. All the small countries that border Russia need to be very careful to be able to defend themselves against Russia - as Ukraine seems to be doing with considerable and perhaps, for some, surprising success.

Our newest Russian correspondent - loyal Russian though he appears to be - needs to remember that while we may not understand the nuances of Russia, we - or many of us outside Russia, and I speak as half Norwegian - have a massive distrust not just of the Russian government [at any stage in history and today], but also the motives the majority of the Russian populace. The hope is for a successful Ukrainian defeat of the Russian invasion army. If the Russian army do win the invasion, Russia will be facing a long Ukrainian civil unrest that will tie down a large military force for perhaps decades. Tragic for the people of Ukraine and very costly for Russia. I have known two Russians who came from Estonia and Latvia as work colleagues [working in England]. Both could be quite fun, but I would have trusted neither further than I could throw them.

On a lighter note, Norwegians are not particularly noted for being humorous, but they can manage a rather dry irony!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60786467

Never mind impounding a Russian Oligarch's watch. Just refuse to sell it fuel!

Keep safe, and KBO [Churchill saying].

Best wishes from George
Click to expand...

Oi! Can I have a word George. What’s now my street was occupied by your lot under that Haakon IV until we ended the occupation in 1263. Not a word of apology, no reparations, nothing.
 
He sounds desperate to me. He’s now advising citizens to attack the scum within their borders as well as outside….
 
DimitryZ said:
I think the arrival of @vs music is a perfect opportunity for @gx502 and @ks.234 who advocate understanding of the Russian perspective to do so directly.

Yet they are strangely silent.
Click to expand...

Thank you for mentioning me by name.

If you want the fastest end to the suffering of men, women, and children in Ukraine, the only way to achieve that is a negotiated withdrawal.

Your own hate filled rants and extreme intolerance sound very similar to those of Putin and are a tactic if repeated in diplomatic circles will only extend the war and increase the suffering of Ukrainian men, women and children.

You have to think about what your objectives are and the best way of achieving them. My preference is for the quickest way to peace in Ukraine, if yours is to punish Putin, you will need state if that is achievable, how it will be achieved and what the consequences will be.
 
ks.234 said:
Thank you for mentioning me by name.

If you want the fastest end to the suffering of men, women, and children in Ukraine, the only way to achieve that is a negotiated withdrawal.

Your own hate filled rants and extreme intolerance sound very similar to those of Putin and are a tactic if repeated in diplomatic circles will only extend the war and increase the suffering of Ukrainian men, women and children.

You have to think about what your objectives are and the best way of achieving them. My preference is for the quickest way to peace in Ukraine, if yours is to punish Putin, you will need state if that is achievable, how it will be achieved and what the consequences will be.
Click to expand...
It's not me you have to convince, it's @vs music . Let's see if this is acceptable to him - a real Putin supporter and a card carrying member of the purified Russian nation. What are his objectives in this conflict?

I am the other Russian Putin has recently mentioned in a speech - a fly whom the people had spat out many, many decades ago - rootless cosmopolitans was our name then.
 
vs music said:
I'm Russian. I am 57 years old . And I support what our government is doing now . The Nazis must be fought . My country was able to destroy the entire fascist 3rd Reich. And we can do it again . We will drive out the Nazis in Ukraine like cockroaches and rats....Prepare a bunker (or barn) for Zelensky's shelter. Very soon he will need it to hide his ass .....Have a good Friday to everyone !
Click to expand...

I think you’re very brave for admitting that you would like to oil up and man wrestle small man syndrome putin in a kids paddling pool, I hope your wish comes true.
 
DimitryZ said:
It's not me you have to convince, it's @vs music . Let's see if this is acceptable to him - a real Putin supporter and a card carrying member of the purified Russian nation. What are his objectives in this conflict?

I am the other Russian Putin has recently mentioned - a fly who ran off from Russian (Soviet) goodness many, many decades ago.
Click to expand...

It’s not up to me to convince anyone
 
ks.234 said:
It’s not up to me to convince anyone
Click to expand...
How quickly your convictions fizzle. It's easy to negotiate with the victim, much harder to do so with an agressor.

You spent weeks advising to "take the Russian perspective into account." Yet when an actual Russian shows up, you have no interest in doing so.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top