russel
./_dazed_and_confused
Be careful, you don’t know what else he expects for five roubles. It’s why Putin looks ill, he’s worn out.
Ukraine III
- Thread starter TheDecameron
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Be careful, you don’t know what else he expects for five roubles. It’s why Putin looks ill, he’s worn out.
Wolfmancatsup
Empire State Human
“Hey Siri. Show me someone whose only source of news is the Kremlin”.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Everyone astonished that Russian man living in Russia might support Russian government...
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I confess to being slightly surprised that Russian person living in Russia can currently access pfm...
vs music
pfm Member
In your countries , VERY little is known about Russian people . You are under the influence of your propaganda . A lot of people in Russia support the actions of our Army . And those who have NOW left Russia - they are just shaking for the safety of their foreign assets and real estate . Homeland for them is a place where their ass is warm . They will sell everyone .
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
This thing about people who will sell everyone, isn't that a line from that batshit Putin speech of a day or two ago? To narrow it down a bit, I mean the one where he laid into the oligarchs (who he first created to build his power base, and later seemed to consider as his friends and allies). How things change.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Oh, and shouty irritable Russian man living in Russia: unlikely to win friends, or win people over to your side of the argument by being shouty and irritable and insulting your audience. Just a little pro tip from an old hand round here. You're welcome.
gustav_errata
pfm Member
Would you care to list any independent, non-state news sources that you use?
That had just occurred to me!
Just deleted a couple of helpful paragraphs after realising I'd be wasting my time trying to help @vs music to be a little objective.
TalYWaun
pfm Member
I see the prize for the Turing Test is still safe.
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
I know Russia a bit: not super well, but enough to have been there for my honeymoon, when it was still called the Soviet Union, and to have made many, many business trips since then (and not just to Moscow and St Petersburg) and worked with lots of Russian colleagues (all lovely people). It's clear a lot of Russians support Putin (even some of those that prefer to keep some assets outside Russia because "you never know", or some that emigrated in the 90s). Others that don't like Putin much can't accept Russia is being ostracized. It's a normal, human reaction. But there will be a time when all Russians will have to reflect on what is being done in their name at the moment to a fellow Slav nation: Mariupol looks like Stalingrad. Bombing civilians is never a good look; razing cities to the ground and starving the inhabitants just because you can and because your offensive is stalled and the generals can't think of anything better is senseless, especially if the objective is to have a peaceful neighbour in the decades to come.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Indeed PsB. Putin has just added 40 million people to the list of those who hate him. Even if he 'wins' in Ukraine, he loses because he then has 40 million new Russian citizens who will want to kill him and ruin his entourage. And they seem a pretty determined bunch.
MUTTY1
Waste of bandwidth
Mini essay from Lawrence Freedman…
Putin and the People
Russia's President has relied on popular support to build his power base, can he keep it through this war?
Sam Freedman
Mar 18
A woman is arrested during a protest in St Petersburg on 13th March (Photo by AFP via Getty Images)
The Russo-Ukraine War is the first in Europe to be fought in part on social media. We are confronted constantly by the horrors of Putin’s violence via the feeds of Ukrainians - from MPs and journalists to ordinary citizens. But it is much harder to assess what Russians think. International social media has been shut down, along with independent news outlets. This restricts the flow of information to ordinary Russians, and makes it even harder than before to assess their views.
We do have some polling from the early days of the war, before the new repressive measures came fully into force. This shows broad support for Russia’s invasion. One private pollster, Russian Field, found 59% supported military action on the 26th-28th February with 34% opposed. Another poll by an anonymous group, a few days later, found 58% in support and 23% opposed. State run pollsters found stronger support for the war by 10 points or so.
These findings must, of course, be considered in context. Pollsters used the phrase “military operation” due to the ban on the word “war” in Russia. As the war has progressed people have probably become increasingly unprepared to answer honestly for fear of who might be listening. As with all polling there are questions of representativeness of respondents and exact question wording.
There are reasons, nonetheless, to suppose these numbers, at least from the first week of the war, are broadly accurate. For such an authoritarian country independent polling has been surprisingly commonplace and is considered by Western academics to be genuinely representative of opinion. Just before the war a prestigious international pollster found half of Russians saying that it would be right for Russia to use military force to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO. And you’d naturally expect support to rise somewhat once a conflict began.
So it seems reasonable to say that a majority of Russians were initially supportive of some form of conflict. But since then sanctions have hit them directly in the pocket. Western goods are no longer available, and a large number of Russians have died (while this isn’t being covered on national news programmes, people will likely have a sense via local newspapers and will see high-profile funerals of officers).
You may be thinking, so what? Putin was already a dictator and has taken significant additional coercive powers in the past few weeks. Does it make any difference what ordinary people think? But throughout his time in power he has been obsessed with popular opinion, commissioning numerous polls from state pollsters, and reacting swiftly to drops in support. This is for good reason. As Sam Greene and Graeme Robertson wrote in their excellent study of Russian popular opinion “Putin vs The People”, the Russian President has “co-constructed” his rule: ...
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548 Market Street PMB 72296, San Francisco, CA 94104
Putin and the People
Russia's President has relied on popular support to build his power base, can he keep it through this war?
Sam Freedman
A woman is arrested during a protest in St Petersburg on 13th March (Photo by AFP via Getty Images)
The Russo-Ukraine War is the first in Europe to be fought in part on social media. We are confronted constantly by the horrors of Putin’s violence via the feeds of Ukrainians - from MPs and journalists to ordinary citizens. But it is much harder to assess what Russians think. International social media has been shut down, along with independent news outlets. This restricts the flow of information to ordinary Russians, and makes it even harder than before to assess their views.
We do have some polling from the early days of the war, before the new repressive measures came fully into force. This shows broad support for Russia’s invasion. One private pollster, Russian Field, found 59% supported military action on the 26th-28th February with 34% opposed. Another poll by an anonymous group, a few days later, found 58% in support and 23% opposed. State run pollsters found stronger support for the war by 10 points or so.
These findings must, of course, be considered in context. Pollsters used the phrase “military operation” due to the ban on the word “war” in Russia. As the war has progressed people have probably become increasingly unprepared to answer honestly for fear of who might be listening. As with all polling there are questions of representativeness of respondents and exact question wording.
There are reasons, nonetheless, to suppose these numbers, at least from the first week of the war, are broadly accurate. For such an authoritarian country independent polling has been surprisingly commonplace and is considered by Western academics to be genuinely representative of opinion. Just before the war a prestigious international pollster found half of Russians saying that it would be right for Russia to use military force to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO. And you’d naturally expect support to rise somewhat once a conflict began.
So it seems reasonable to say that a majority of Russians were initially supportive of some form of conflict. But since then sanctions have hit them directly in the pocket. Western goods are no longer available, and a large number of Russians have died (while this isn’t being covered on national news programmes, people will likely have a sense via local newspapers and will see high-profile funerals of officers).
You may be thinking, so what? Putin was already a dictator and has taken significant additional coercive powers in the past few weeks. Does it make any difference what ordinary people think? But throughout his time in power he has been obsessed with popular opinion, commissioning numerous polls from state pollsters, and reacting swiftly to drops in support. This is for good reason. As Sam Greene and Graeme Robertson wrote in their excellent study of Russian popular opinion “Putin vs The People”, the Russian President has “co-constructed” his rule: ...
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© 2022 Sam Freedman Unsubscribe
548 Market Street PMB 72296, San Francisco, CA 94104
Turned off the heating three weeks ago; will take your advice tomorrow and get the bicycles in perfect running order.
Currently generating 2.93kW and using 0.48kW at home.
Over all my systems we're generating just under 100kVA at the moment.
vs music
pfm Member
I expressed my opinion about these events . That 's all . A lot has already been written here , and different things . It is possible to classify all of you as trolls - based on this . It seems that this is always done in your democracy .
russel
./_dazed_and_confused
A troll is someone who expresses a controversial opinion without supporting evidence that can be verified, if you to back up your opinion with facts then please stay.
You just made my point comrade.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
I think it's more that you made reference to 'nazis', Russian traitors etc without anything to back it up or reference to any sources.
I don't know why folk find it so hard to believe that someone supports Putin - we know he has a lot of support in Russia.
Anyway, I'm more interested in your avatar. Is that your cat?
Feel lucky that you can; any other opinion and you'd be on the way to the Gulag by now.
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