UEFA Euros 2024
- Thread starter Spraggons Den
- Start date
Lee T
pfm Member
Many years ago, in a far of land, in another part of the universe, England football teams used to give all & sweat blood in friendly (meaningless) matches & gather momentum amongst the public to trick them into believing England had a chance, then of course England were met with better managers, better players & better strategy when reaching the finals of the tournament. Nowadays Southgate has changed course, employing a more (foreign) strategic approach where players are used in such matches to determine their worth in the hard slog of a tournament & tactics are used to determine a plan B if everything goes pair shaped.
England were woeful a few nights ago against a mediocre team with little chance of ever scoring a goal against any opposition, but at least we have 2 world class players in Kane (a little over the hill) & Palmer, a young, old skool player with genuine ability & skill that would have walked into any Liverpool team of the 70's/80's & if sent back in time to these golden days of football, would be heralded as some sort of god.
I fear it's the end of an era for Southgate, onwards & upwards
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
Folk have short memories.
Only recently on our way to winning our Euros qualification group, we won away to Italy for the first time since dinosaurs roamed the Earth. And the victory over Germany in the last Euros was our first win in a major against them since 66 - the reaction from Linaker, Wright and Shearer confirmed the significance. We also won a quarter final 4-0, when does that happen, and have scored 6 and 7 goals in group games.
The way the team and Southgate conducted themselves in the face of racism when playing against eastern European teams has also been exemplary. My gut feeling is Southgate is going to walk regardless of how the tournament goes.
Only recently on our way to winning our Euros qualification group, we won away to Italy for the first time since dinosaurs roamed the Earth. And the victory over Germany in the last Euros was our first win in a major against them since 66 - the reaction from Linaker, Wright and Shearer confirmed the significance. We also won a quarter final 4-0, when does that happen, and have scored 6 and 7 goals in group games.
The way the team and Southgate conducted themselves in the face of racism when playing against eastern European teams has also been exemplary. My gut feeling is Southgate is going to walk regardless of how the tournament goes.
Alex N
pfm Member
You’d think Alan would’ve remembered his winning goal at Euro 2000.
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
Good point, well presented. So let’s change it to in a knock out game.
Alex N
pfm Member
Euro 96 semi. Gascoigne stretching to reach a Shearer cross for the late ’golden goal’. (Sigh.)
Weekender
pfm Member
A counter argument if I'm allowed:
I don't have a short memory, but it needs some reinforcement from Wiki:
The wins you mention were against:
A poor Italian team currently ranked 9th despite their Euros win (against England, at Wembley, with many arguing Mancini out-thought Southgate despite having inferior players, not forgetting the failed penalty taker Subs. There was also criticism that Southgate was too slow to make tactical changes) who on 15 November 2021, drew 0–0 with Northern Ireland in their final 2022 World Cup qualifying Group C match and finished in second place, two points behind Switzerland. On 24 March 2022, Italy lost 1–0 in the semi-final of the play-offs against North Macedonia, therefore, failing to qualify for the World Cup for a second consecutive time.
Germany have also had recent struggles (they are ranked 16th, though have home advantage in this tournament) : In the 2022 World Cup, Germany were drawn into Group E with Spain, Japan and Costa Rica. The campaign started with a shock 2–1 defeat to Japan. Germany drew 1–1 with Spain, and then were knocked out of the World Cup in the group stage for the second consecutive tournament, despite a 4–2 win over Costa Rica, missing out on a place in the knockout stages on goal difference.
To win the Euros England will need to do something they have never done in a major tournament: beat a team ranked higher than themselves. Probably France. That's not a specific dig at Southgate. They nearly did it last time...
Belgium and Portugal also have really solid chances and Germany are at home and showing signs of a rally - beating France in a recent friendly.
It will be interesting to see if Southgate takes the handbrake off in the knockout stages - we look short at the back and one option is to open up and out-score teams. Arguably against his natural instincts.
I also think about Capello's quote a lot: "This never-ending 66, the returning ghost, something with its white tentacles... and you can no longer perform in the way that you should.”
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
You can only beat the opposition put in front of you (be it not their best teams ever) and having alighted on Italys and Germanys recent inconsistency in qualifiers only serves to underline how good Southgate’s England have been in this regard.
Ever heard of managing upwards? It’s why pretty much every successful team will have a group of senior players who will liaise with the manager. The manager will have the final say but it’s important to get ‘buy in’ from the players.
The term ‘lost the dressing room’ is now part of popular parlance. Good leaders know when to give & take.
The term ‘lost the dressing room’ is now part of popular parlance. Good leaders know when to give & take.
Bellingham is pretty good as is Foden & Rice. We tend to lack a midfielder who can dictate the game, like Pirlo did for Italy. I remember watching Gerrard run around like a headless chicken while Pirlo would just put his foot on the bal & dictate the game.Many years ago, in a far of land, in another part of the universe, England football teams used to give all & sweat blood in friendly (meaningless) matches & gather momentum amongst the public to trick them into believing England had a chance, then of course England were met with better managers, better players & better strategy when reaching the finals of the tournament. Nowadays Southgate has changed course, employing a more (foreign) strategic approach where players are used in such matches to determine their worth in the hard slog of a tournament & tactics are used to determine a plan B if everything goes pair shaped.
England were woeful a few nights ago against a mediocre team with little chance of ever scoring a goal against any opposition, but at least we have 2 world class players in Kane (a little over the hill) & Palmer, a young, old skool player with genuine ability & skill that would have walked into any Liverpool team of the 70's/80's & if sent back in time to these golden days of football, would be heralded as some sort of god.
I fear it's the end of an era for Southgate, onwards & upwards
We don’t really produce such players & when we do we don’t play them. Look at how we treated Hoddle for example.
Salamander
pfm Member
You are spot on, I said three years ago when seeing Foden, first name on the team sheet and build a team round him. He wasn't the finished article then but the future would have held promise. Bellingham and Rice are two more big positives and I'll add a third in Rashford. England's back four is our main weakness, I don't watch enough football nowadays to see an answer, I had hoped Dunk would help the situation, but he has been as brittle as the others. The only other player to have given me the same feeling as with Foden, Glenn Hoddle, I remember Bobby Robson picking him to play wide on the right, that says it all about that managers knowledge in my book.
I'll get my steel helmet and duck now.
Pravda
pfm Member
Most people look at things differently, football fans are no different really
Brown Bottle
UTB
Maddison is the first player released from the squad. He started the season well but seems to have lost his way since Christmas.
Cheers BB
Cheers BB
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
Followed by Moellers disgusting Mussolini like celebration when he scored in the penalty shootout.
Weekender
pfm Member
I'd always assumed he was just impersonating Gazza's earlier celebration - seems to be borne out here:
Moller on Euro 96 and Gazza's congratulations
As he turns 50, Germany icon Andreas Moller tells ESPN FC how Paul Gascoigne didn't mind his iconic celebration after knocking England out of Euro 96.
The line I always remember from one of those talking heads programmes was a bloke recounting watching it with his girlfriend and she saying of Moller "He won't miss; he fancies himself too much".
Brown Bottle
UTB
Sums him up nicely.I'd always assumed he was just impersonating Gazza's earlier celebration - seems to be borne out here:
Moller on Euro 96 and Gazza's congratulations
As he turns 50, Germany icon Andreas Moller tells ESPN FC how Paul Gascoigne didn't mind his iconic celebration after knocking England out of Euro 96.www.espn.com
The line I always remember from one of those talking heads programmes was a bloke recounting watching it with his girlfriend and she saying of Moller "He won't miss; he fancies himself too much".
Cheers BB
pawnshop92
pfm Member
Maguire is past it, truly (though it looks like he is not fit vs being cut on merit) and Grealish is a squad player at Citeh, better options for that team with Foden, Bowen and Palmer who have all had decent form this year. In non-England news, I got Scotland in the pool at work.